First of all, precision strike is not available from the get go and no one gets a quick mortar, specially as SU. Meta nowadays is conscript/rifles into whatever.
The power of a buildings comes around the number of windows you can shoot from.
Green cover > Garrison cover. Although stat difference is just slightly (0.05 RA)
Anyway, at this point i think it's pointless to discuss if you are entitled to your opinion.
A high ranked 2v2 player and a strategist is telling you something, probably other top players might also think so. I guess we are just wrong and our experience is flawed.
Good then I guess getting in that house was good after all. It sure beats getting into green cover that won't give you good line of sight instead of a building that will. Mhmm get smoke grenaded and flanked easy, mhmm that's is sandbags for you. You know what will still give you at least SOME cover? a building.
It's end of discussion, you're not breaking out stats anymore because they can't help you so I know you're out of arguments.
rushing to a building in the early game and being like "yup, gg" is not good map design.
yea it is |
I'm saying the church is not a huge stronghold and you have a long way making it into the cutoff house. You said you have "free" mid till your opponents get a sniper/mortar. I'm telling you that you only have 1 window to shoot from while south has sandbags and fences. You can't outpush greencover with a building or an MG.
Pio>T1>MG>Gren
Theres only 1 situation on which you make it into the church, your opponent is SU and opens with a Tier (weird this days) and you skip capping the first flag. If not, his conscript/rifle is arriving way faster than you.
If playing against OKW, it might probably go for a Kubel first and rush your cutoff. You just need to drag the game a bit and not get suppressed while you later tech M3/M20 and enjoy your free reign of wipe and chaos.
Anyway, i'm no one to tell you not to enjoy the map, but you should open your eyes if you think that Moscow is a balanced map.
It's balanced. You will be suppressed by the church, I don't know why you think that building is easy to take down when in fact it's not. You cling to this green cover sandbags as if it will basically win you the game when destroying units in green cover would range from slightly easier to completely easier than a church building. Can mortars precision shot that church building and kill the crew as easily as crew in sandbags?
You forgot that CoH cover is "what you see is what you get".
There's a reason players starting with MG's would choose the building over green cover in many maps like rails an metal, it provides cover from multiple directions easily and can't get one shotted by vet 1 mortars.
Open my eyes? Look. learn the map, hop a fence, rush to a building. that is good map design. Putting 3 MG's covering a gas point out in open ground is not. |
AND you have green and yellow cover to shoot at the church while the guys inside only have 1 window to shoot from...
MG? You can circunvent the church through 4 routes, mid VP, left side of church, munition point or graveyard by vaulting.
what are you doing having only one unit there? or do you usually have 1 unit go through each part of the map? I send pio's to cap after I garrison that church or else i just have several units there mg+pio and a coming gren squad |
Open ground is as bad as red cover
Open suppression:1.0
Open penetration:1.0
Open accuracy:1.25
Open damage:1.25
Negative suppression:1.5
Negative penetration:1.0
Negative accuracy:1.25
Negative damage:1.25
How do I multi-quote?
Anyway, make them worse.
It's a cliché but "easy to learn, hard to master" is what turned me on to the OG CoH. The first thing you notice is the nice details, the destructable envirnment, the fun micro tactics (cover system and such) and nice presentation especially the voice recordings.
What makes you stay is the flora of tactics that can be used and, even if I shudder at the words, how every battle tells a story. Also you'll never master the micro, it's like the speed of light, you can get close but you'll never be perfect.
Yea, no matter how hard you work you can never reach top speed due to lag, an old PC, and giving orders 1 by 1 (group go there, tank go here, this unit retreat) |
Oh my god. Someone just brought up the WC51 as if it wasnt the most overpriced and underperfoming light vehicle even compared to the Kubelwagen currently....
/Facepalm
I hate that clown car thing and I'm glad you got a headache over that piece of shit. May it NEVER get buffed. 100% serious |
After playing for a long time against good players, i'm telling you, this is not a balanced map. I don't mind playing north as allies even if i'm at disadvantage, but as Axis...oh god.
Map disposition tends to make the game drag to the west-middle side. This converge into the north spawn cutoff point. Theres also no really easy way to circumvent the map when you get the "pin" on the north. Should i add that theres also really easy ways to block the retreat paths and we have just a mortal combo here.
I see what you mean, but owning east side starting with that church and working your way toward that house south of it let's you focus on middle. Starting north I ALWAYS make that church a priority, it's free middle until you force the guy to build mortars or snipers. |
Yes, I realize CoH is sort of an arcady game and realism is obviously out the door. However the game really needs to be more punishing (but not crippling) to non-tactical gamestyles like blobbing and more rewarding for innovative strategies.
Something I'm missing from the OG CoH is a way to get back in the game even if you're set back, low fuel income early game shouldn't be a death sentence nor should massive sudden losses from something like a well placed artillery strike make you surrender. Perhaps decreased resource income the higher you float so you can't replace losses instantly when you've been popcapped for a while.
Yea man, CoH2 definitely tries to be fun and open to the casual player. But isn't that where they go wrong? Someone buying an RTS game expecting Call of Duty?
I'm not saying you have to be a genius to play RTS but it is demanding at times.
|
Its a pretty well known fact that regardless of any of that that the north side is at a disadvantage
No |
Good idea actually, but could lead to a lot of annoying infantry wipes.
Thanks, my goal with that idea is to make the game much more tactically important than base building important.
Allies are disadvantaged because the game is kind of a tank race which Axis can win if they just get enough line of sight for their guns.
Axis are disadvantaged because they are almost always outnumbered by infantry early game, so they tech up to have 100% advantage with tanks like Ostwind or Luchs.
Furthermore, D-Day proved infantry in open spaces do not get pinned 100% of the time. Time to up the lethality of MG guns and lower suppression for open ground, but keep suppression and lethality the same for units in cover.
I think MG's will be better than way. |
Whoever spawns south wins or has a HUGE edge. Too easy to get the cutoff.
I've tried hopping the fence. It seems to work all the time.
Likewise, the Church is a key secondary objective. It holds both the muni and victory points, the house to the south of it cuts off fuel for the player on the south side of the map.
Strategic locations matter more than strategic points. THAT is good map making. |
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