experience is not feels. When you have a panzerIV come clear a position out in 15 seconds vs sherman he getting chased away with less than half health form fausts, it's a big difference. It's not feels, it happens. There isn't anything wrong so much with the p4, but it's gen purpose rounds do the same work the HE rounds do, I'd argue better, but at least equal. It's not something made up, it's observable. |
The statistical base of the HE round being the best doesn't matter, because other units are still effective enough. It's like the income struggle between having 1 million dollars and 1.5 million, it doesn't really change much, you can still afford nice things. The stats to me are secondary to experience. Not my experience. The shared experience among everyone of what does and does not happen in the live game. When all variables are taken into account. I have played axis. It's extremely easy to beat most people in team games. In 1v1 it's a bit different since there is more territory per person to watch over. The difference in impact between the arrival of a pIV and the arrival of a Sherman HE into an infantry area is night and day. unprepared axis will try to faust the sherman to death. Unprepared allies can try to use snares like that, but usually are forced into retreat before that happens. I'm talking just 1 tank. I'm not gonna go spending hours trying to dig out a statistical explanation, but there is an experience difference in impact. When I play axis, I'm really not that intimidated by a sherman. I'm not very intimidated by rifles either. artillery and big soviet tanks tend to be the greater threat. I can hold an entire infantry advance back with as little as a brumbar or piv. The weapons are so effective it's really easy against most. One of the biggest tells of this is the morale. Allied players quit so fast, but people are far more willing to stick through a difficult axis battle. |
The fact that double BAR rifles exist kind of cancels this out though. They'll stand a decent chance against pgrens and obers and there should be a lot more of them in the lategame.
Also HE sherman exists.
Valid, but having to pay 120mu for a decent chance is inefficient. HE rounds are so RNG. You have to get lucky and you have to make sure there is no obstructions between the Sherman and target. HE rounds will always hit the obstruction instead of the target if so. The accuracy/scatter of HE rounds is so bad, sometimes you can be sitting there firing for half a minute before getting that lucky shot. Most opponents I face aren't bothered by it, until that lucky shot happens.
The sloppy play axis efficiency affords players in larger team games is a joke. It's not even fun for me to play axis. I have to play against an allied team way over my skill to sweat as axis. Why are axis infantry lobbing bundle grenades as far as other units are lobbing smaller grenades? The extra explosives must be heavier. Satchels and gammon's aren't being thrown so far. |
The reason you think only Axis elite infantry have super-high dps is that you only play Allies/USF.
My comment really wasn't so much about elite infantry, as it is infantry as a whole. Have you seen the damage a vet3 ost grenadier can do to a full health retreating squad? The units are effective at all ranges. The fact that a pgren doesn't do a 2 second wipe at long range doesn't mean it's innefective at long range. Pio's are innefective at range. Rear Echelon are innefective at ANY range. Does it take 2000 axis games to understand this? It must not since that's the best rebuttal is to attack me. |
I think axis dps is more of an issue. Especially with the larger squad sizes, but most importantly their accuracy. It gets to the point where a squad can last maybe a second or two exposed to some axis units before needing to retreat. Compare that to what must be the worst, RE who can nearly be ignored in almost every situation without a rack weapon.
I remember in the first coh was out, I think one of the developers was asked about why the infantry miss so much or fire off so many rounds. They said something like the battles would be over too quickly otherwise, so they opted for this model where the infantry battles lasted. We've all play fps games, you know you don't need 25 rounds with a garand to pop some guys head in front of you.
The way I see it, most of the allied units are sticking to that model, while certain upgraded axis units are breaking it, mainly due to having extremely high accuracy at all ranges.
More evidence can commonly be found looking at the difference in flanks. I know many players like to say that axis needs high dps because allies have high squad counts. However, when you apply to this team weapons, it doesn't really hold up. A single axis squad will typically wipe out a team weapon it flanks, especially if it's something like a pgren, ober, falls(omg they are lol). the team weapons get that extra received accuracy, so they are super easy to hit. I think that was intended long ago to help allied sides benefit from smart play(as opposed to retarded blobbing), but with what's available now, it helped axis assure a squad wipe more. On top of that, many axis blob players can attack machine guns(of any faction) head on and their dps is so high that they will kill each man before he fires the machine gun.
I don't mind on some units, like obers, because if that mg34 gets dropped axis is going to be in for a world of pain. The stg44's don't get dropped. The falls don't drop a gun. So people can use those weapons more risky. I know allies have some too, like shocks and commandos, which if you let them get into close range with their smg you're toast, but they have to get in close.
Some of the axis accuracy values can be lowered without breaking the game. |
you can smoke it with a sherman
|
sounds like he's getting outplayed to me. As soon as I read pak howi and .50 in the same game. Nope, that means this guy got an lt and a cpt, which I don't see very often. Typical OST thing to do is find some resources and camp on it until brumbar/p4. So, pak howi is supposed to be used on static positions. Sounds like you just don't want your opponent to have anything effective against you, which would be a pretty boring game.
Rifles are pretty tough to handle as OST with just infantry, but OKW is able to overpower USF quite easily with more than 1 squad type. I've had okw blobs attack .50 from the front and never get suppressed. |
You underestimate how good tread shot is and how well it plays as a command vehicle with smoke and mobility.
I haven't seen a smoke ability on the stuart yet |
It doesn't always penetrate at max range, it bounces more at max range. On some heavy tanks it even bounces at near range. |
Just a note, I have a low skilled rank, but don't confuse me with someone new to the game. I've been playing coh since 2006, since my individual experience is so important to this discussion. In the first game I played mostly axis, as they were a greater challenge to me in that game.
Buffing other at options of the USF would create a bigger problem, because those weapons are going to way out of balance in comparison to other options. If the game designers can make gameplay changes that defy reality for the sake of better gameplay, then it should not be a problem to lower the armor values on heavier tanks. They shouldn't be sitting in front of at guns bouncing shots off of them. 1 atg is understandable, but multiples? It should be retreat or die and it's not like that right now, for heavies. I'm not a tourney player, but when I watch tourney games, I don't see the contestants doing any of the stupid shit I see people get away with in team games. It's not just axis opponents that do stupid shit either, allied players do it too. The difference is, the axis weapons are reliable and allied players get their units destroyed fast as you would expect. I see plenty of people screw up with their m36 and lose it and I don't see it as a balance issue. If there is anything wrong with the m36, it is def not the armor.
If I were to choose something to do with long range weapons that are seen as unfair, I'd change their usability. Slower turrets and lower accuracy at range. That means smaller and faster units are able to avoid the turret and bigger slower units are not. Smaller units get missed more often, bigger units still get hit. None of these tanks should have decent accuracy when moving either. Moving and shooting is more of a modern warfare accomplishment. |