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Only thing is now that the they have the ammo to 100% something need to be look at like the ammo conversion from tier 3, and the Obas and FJ getting there weapons for free. |
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Totally agree with Hon3ynuts on both points. I don't mind if a fiction is a little better at one stage of the game or a another, but every faction should have a chance to win at those stages. Not a slime one either. In the end it should be which ever player plays the best should get the win no matter the time of the game. The balance before WF came out was like this the whemack were stronger late game, but the soviet still stood a good chance of beating them. Same for Whemack in the early game.
I also agree that the other factions either A. need a buff or B. a redesign to bring them more in line with the OKW. OKW don't need a nerf, because this would only make the game more stale I think. In the end there are still a fun faction to play, but they are still to good when compared to the other faction who have way too many design problem, useless units, and weaker units. |
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So MilkaCow here is a question on asymmetrical balance can it be done for 4 completely different factions. This still seam to work fine when you just have 2 factions. FRom what I remember from VCoH the british faction the the elite german faction started as overpowered and then were nerf to the point were it was just better to play use and whemk. When looking at 1v1s you have to balance for 4 different make up and it seems to me that bring about a whole lot of problems. Like the Kuble which was buffed to A. make it useful in game, and B counter soviet sniper play. This balance was need but this also made the OKW v USF mach up broken. You seem to know more asymmetrical balance then I do. Personally i think if relic is still going to balance this way they need balance from a 2v2 setting with 1 of each faction fighting not 1v1s. Thoughts? |
T34 Calliope plz and thank you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T34_Calliope Would love to see this come out with the new campaign they are give to the USF. |
Panther and King Tiger both have top gunner upgrades
I stand corrected. Still the 50 mun cost? |
OKW has the best infantry and tanks throughout the game. But if you think this is an advanage, think again.
Start game it's the only point where OKW is advantaged, because of kubel.
From Middle game the fuel problem begins to be serious untill late-game and end-gam.
Virtualy, in early game you don't need vehicles, you're doing fine with good infantry and kubel.
In middle game you will begin to lose the race related to tank building and you will have to compensate with infantry and team weapons as raketen. Now those from you who played vCOH know that infantry in COH2 it's not vCOH infantry, no matter the faction. When the map begins to be filled with tanks, infantry will be torn to pieces. Volksgenadiersw with a single schreck plus raketen cannot compensate enough the lack of AT as pzgrens and PAK 40 can compensate for Ostheer. A Puma must be added. But with every vehicle you build, you delay your teching and building of others (more powerfull) vehicles. Puma it's ok, but it's not for late game. Cannot realy fight with IS2, SU-85, T34/85 and so on. So you struggle untill late game to build one or two vehicles and (remember!!) keep them alive! I can lose a T34, I will build other in 2 minutes. I lose a Puma I will build other in 5 maybe 10 minutes.
More than this choises you make are particulary more important for THIS faction because flexibility it's not its strongpoint! Which makes it quite predictable on the battlefield.
Since beginning I have to make a choice: build T2 or T3? What should I do? If you make the rong choice that will cost you dearly. No T2 start (by T2 we understand the leigh + searchlight + jgdpanzer building) will keep you safe from a tank storm. On the other hand, if you chose T3, you will have some great options good for all but your infantry will suffer because you cannot heal it. T4 it,s usefull no doubt, but you have to put it somewhat in an advanced position (this is its purpose) and therefore exposed to all kind of artillery weapons and AT weapons. I don't want to mention here how efficient is soviet howitzer or katiusha against any OKW build. Or how B4 can kill your havies or buidings from such a safe distance whithout the possibility to retaliate.
Your heavies will be expensive, verry expensive. Panther is still possible but if you manage too build 2 you are a champion. However, by the time you do that, your opponent will most probably have 4 T34/76 plus one IS2 or plus 2 T34/85.
If you want to build a KT you will wait forever while not building vehicles at all or building just one which is VERRY RISKY from reasons stated above.
So yes, OKW it's a verry nice faction to play and it's quite hard not to like it due to it's elite units, but make no mistake related to difficulty. If you are a soviet or american only player and didn't try OKW yet, you will have a shock when you will try it for the first time. I remember what a (soviet only) guy said on this forum not verry long ago. Something like: OMG begun to play today with OKW and I found myself in middle game with to few infantry and with almost no vehicles, wtf?!
As a conclusion, the specific of this faction it's "high reward - high risk" and it was like this from the beginning. That is why it's so addictive and special, and not because it's "easy to play" as some people said here. Au contraire, I realy think that only truly skilfull players can be good with this faction. The rest of players if you want to reach the top, play soviets  .
On a more serious note, a faction comparable to OKW as difficulty (though totally different) it's currently USF, but it wasn't allways like that.
Will all this may be true that if you loses your units you will fail as OKW the problem still stand that if you have two high lvl players of equal lvl the one who played with the better units will win hands down. This is the problem the risk factor has been lower to the point that the OKW can steam role at every stage of the game. This means the OKW player has to mess up, in order for the allies to win. I mean when I look at the balance i don't see any hard counters that the allies can use against OKW. Made you can tell me, and just to be clear not trying to be an ass here. I mean the allied inf can only really deal cost effectively with Volk, and only so long as they aren't vet 5. Which most of the time are changed out with elite inf by the 8 minute mark. The isu is not a real counter either because A. you need to hold enough fuel to get it (hard to do), and B. by this time you could be fighting KT and JTigers. In the end I think that the High reward- high risk has changed to Just high reward granted after a learning curve has set in. |
I think it is more that Relic hasn't gotten around to rebalancing the old factions in line with the new ones in upgrade cost, or vice versa. I mean when you think about it I don't think any of the OKW tanks have a MG upgrade other then maybe the P4 elite call in, but i have never used it to see. In the end I think it will be fixed later down the road after some bigger balance problems have been changed. I mean a con and a gred still cost the same 240 MP lol and the con cost more to fully reinforce back up at 100mp to 90mp.  |
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Here is a question for everyone. Dose the OKW need the Kubel to be a MG? Why not just make it like the M3 or other scout cars that support inf fighting other inf or to hunt down and killing snipers. I mean i don't see the need for the kuble to be an MG in the OKW line up were there inf win the majority of match ups. Not to mention they have the MG43 in 2 of their doctrines, and a AA halftrack, AA emplacements, bunkers and AA bases that also suppress inf. These alone I think cover the suppression need of the OKW. |
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The OKW have the best INF and Tanks in the game hands down. There Inf will win the war on their own. All and okw need is time, there manpower when used right is all you need till the heavys hit the field then GG. |
Thread: 4v418 Sep 2014, 18:08 PM
why so categorically ?
I only can repeat: have you noticed that topics concerning balance problems in 3 vs 3 , 4 vs 4 modes have being emerging increasingly ?
What does it mean ?
At lager scale it means that people nowadays are more interested in team modes rather than in 1 vs 1 in all games, and COH2 is not an exception.
There are measures to settle properly balance in team games not abusing 1 vs 1 modes! It is only question of wish and hard work.
I fell that it means the underlying balance of the game is wrong. like I said before WF all game modes were very balanced. I think the majority of people will say that was the best time for balance in CoH 2. All this balance come from 1v1s game changes. I dont know if it was just luck that these changes had a positive effect on 3v3s and 4v4s, or relic took the time to think about these change in a 3v3 or 4v4 setting. Either way I still say,"Although I have found that so long as the main game mode is balanced the other modes are very closes to balance as well." If not balanced in the end. |
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