That isn't true at all, vet 2 p4 wins heads up against the vet 0 t34/85 about half the time and it has nothing to do with armour or penetration, it's because of the t34/85 tighter scatter.
Were do you come up with this stuff?
Experience playing the game. |
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2) You said P4 and T-85 were equal, again 
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What I said was "about equal", not "equal". Huge difference isn't?
1v1 in a vacuum Vet 0 PzIV will loose to T-34/85 but only just. With vet however situation changes dramatically.
When PzIV reaches Vet 2, T-34/85 will die every time. Having this in mind you can easily say that PzIV is a better investment. |
Because you have no clue how to successfully use PzIV against T-34/85 doesn't mean the unit is bad. |
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Vet II PzIV beats every medium tank Allies can produce. Vet III increases the gap even more.
Brand new outclasses Sherman and T-34/76. Not so sure about T-34/85 but I'd say these are about the same.
No idea about Cromwell, but I won't hesitate to engage one with PzIV |
Seriously you are comparing the mg34 with the maxim? im not even going to discuss this so fucking stupid is that argument.
And comparing the SU commanders with the okw commanders is just blatant intellectual dishonesty.
Im not interested talking about these things anyway and its offtopic. i so far have see no decent arguments why the stg44 is needs to be ridiculous cost ineffective on a already cost ineffective unit.
MG34 is a defensive HMG that will help you control the battlefield. It's decent against blobs. If you haven't rely on your Volks so much in the past you'd learn how to play proper combined arms with OKW, no you have to catch up the hard way. You see OKW commanders provide tons of elite infantry that could help you against your opponent.
Is maxim really a problem for OKW now, when incendiary grenades are present? |
What a shitty analogy when the SU always relied on maxims + callin infantry.
You're right. If only OKW had access to HMG and infantry call ins so you can replace these Volks late game...
Oh wait.
At least get your facts straight. In its concept OKW design if fairly similar to SU.
This topic should have been named: I struggle to find my ways without my trusted Volks blob, rant. |
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That is interesting. Can someone confirm or deny this? |
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Does scatter apply when attacking tanks? |
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There could be accuracy, scatter or something else affecting the results. Hell, 2 degrees difference is not that big and engine could be limited in terms of measurement intervals or something else. It could even be game bug or glitch or lousy code. That is not important. What is important, is that the very existence of random results while attacking target from side indicates that there is no side armour in this game, otherwise you would get consistent results every time.
The example you are talking about is most certainty due to projectile behavior or accuracy or scatter or AoE profile or simple glitch. And yes, I did observe it in game and frankly it is annoying because it kind of makes tank fights even more rng dependent and I really wish side armour was implemented in this game like it should have been from the very beginning but this is yet another shortcut Relic took while coding CoH2.
I don't remember exactly now but did CoH have side armour? Something tells me it did. |
The reason why this side-penetration thing is important was because the last patch is the biggest game-changer to late-game dynamics ever since UKF was released:
- All heavily-armoured vehicles received a hefty rear armour nerf
- SU-85 received a heavy rate-of-fire nerf just so that it can reliably penetrate the frontal armour of heavy tanks.
Since frontal armour remained the same across the board for all heavies, we might soon discover that heavy vehicles are actually a lot squishier when flanked from the side.
None of them were done at a 90 degree angle.
What I did was pick an angle that seemed narrower than 90 at first, and then I picked an angle that was wider, and it seemed to be wider than 90 degrees.
The degrees of the angles do not matter.
What I care to show is not that at angle X the chances are Y and Z. But if you change your angle slightly:
- The results change
- But the results don't change as dramatically as 90% -> 10%
You can actually see the pictures for yourself in the post I explain the experiment:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/36347/cruzz-s-the-more-you-know/page/43#post_id548065
You can probably determine the angle of the attack by:
- The orientation of the Panther
- The orientation of the gun (which should be aiming at the centre of the Panther)
Yes. The value of the effective armour is not fixed. It depends entirely on:
- The angle
- The penetration of the gun
Let's ignore what we have now, for a moment. Suppose CoH2 used a different system:
- You have front and rear armour like now
- Every time a shot lands on the side of the tank, there's a 50% chance rear armour will be used, 50% front armour will be used (regardless of angle)
Now, let's walk through an example.
A Stug has chance to penetration Panther at max range:
- Frontal: 53% (170 / 320)
- Rear: 100% (170 / 110)
You can see that the front armour and rear armour govern the chance of penetration. Now what happens when you attack from the side?
- 50% of the time it hits frontal armour, 50% of the time it hits rear armour
What is the probability that the Stug penetrates when it attacks from the side?
It's equal to the P(rear) * P(penetrate | rear) + P(front) * P (penetrate | front)
P(rear): probability we hit rear armour
P(penetrate | rear): conditional probability to penetrate when we hit rear armour
If we substitute these variables we get:
50% * 100% + 50% * 53% = 76.5%
Thus, the chance to penetrate from the side is equal to 76.5%. This is neither 53% (front) nor 100% (rear). From the perspective of the Stug, with penetration 170, a 76.5% penetration chance is the equivalent to its gun firing at a target with armour 170 / 76.5% = 222.
If we used a gun with different penetration, the value of the effective armour would be different.
Now, in CoH2, the firing angle also seems to affect the value of the effective armour. I don't know exactly how much yet, but it is important to find out how, as this affects engagements.
Here is a small diagram. I hope you can understand how it works now:
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