Profile of Cruzz

Thats the necessary reciprocation in order to keep them aligned.

I don't think any kind of "reciprocation" is needed. Soviets are gonna get hit hardest by the call-in change I want, because they're the most reliant on the couple of cheese call-in tank strats they have. Wehr second hardest, but they actually have good tech vehicles in T3 so they've always had an option that isn't just waiting for Tigers. USF and OKW won't really care except for the EZ8 spam strat and even there the cost of a major is not as high as soviet tech and gives you some utility in the form of the retreat point.

The horrible conscript scalability into lategame has largely been "solved" by nobody using them in team games if they want to win, and nobody expecting to win without either really heavy support weapon (maxim, mortar, sniper) or tons of anti-infantry tanks. It's not like I'm suggesting to give them some kind of weapons of mass destruction here, even with these upgrades they couldn't win against an lmg gren squad at any range all other things being equal. But atleast they'd put up a better fight than right now where they're literally just cannonfodder for merging into other squads in the end game.

Thanks.

Do you have, or could you make, a replay on this?

http://www.coh2.org/replay/22272/how-to-pick-up-a-thrown-game-with-stug-e

As a rather extreme example of what just spamming paks+stuges+mg42s will do against USF.

If you ask me....

0-10 min: USF > Soviet = OKW > Wehr
10-20 min: OKW > Wehr = Soviet > USF
>20 min: OKW >> Wehr > Soviet >> USF

Im not sure why you compare these two specific units to a Stug.

Because they're all assault guns with relatively stronger AT compared to the main generalist tanks (PIV/T34)

Oh, so its stronger vs AI when it upgrades, at Muni cost and gets within range of the Pintle?
Seems alright to me.

It's stronger even without the pintle.

Hmm I wonder why though, eh? Probably because its shit? Which sort of reinforces my position, dont you think?

I'm pretty sure this particular conversation isn't about the uselessness of Ostheer T4 units, so no, it doesn't reinforce your position.

Which counterpart are you referring to?

The elefant.

Im disappointed in you Cruzz. You are being dishonest, like Katitof.

I try my best.

Whats wrong with a 60 Muni upgrade increading AI efficacy?

Nothing, so why is it such a problem if conscripts were to get something of the sort?

Yes, (tiny marginal )better penetration, but also directional. Range is identical iirc. ATNades, due to parabolic trajectory, frequently can and do hit rear armor in a way no Faust can, meaninf the penetration value is applied to a lower armor quotient. Furthermore, ATNades are a guaranteed hit, whereas Fausts still do impact on terrain rather than the target. The ewuivalency is fine.

40% to 60% higher penetration against on average weaker allied armor is not tiny or marginal in any way. Faust is 25, atnade is 20 range. Frankly I never really see any parabolic behavior to atnades, they'll just explode on contact, but if you assume it exists then you should acknowledge that when you are throwing at the rear of a tank then it'll frequently hit the front armor instead. Fausts don't impact on map objects any more often than atnades just disappear into thin air.

I dont understans why you rehash the old Faust/ATNade+RNade/Molotov issue when NOTHING in your fantasy patch actuallyneven remotely involves changing them?

Because people were arguing about grens and cons?

I don't think the special abilities need to be changed, but I do think they give an edge to grenadiers as the game goes on so even without the lmg they end up being more valuable in the long run than conscripts.

Grens scale, at Muni cost, to endgame, but are counteracted but generally stronger AI on Sov mid-late units.
Cons on the otherhand soak mid-lategame better, thanks to 6man hp dispersal, especially vs the general AI weakness of Ost mid-lategame armor.

What stronger AI, what AI weakness of lategame armor?

The StuG has higher anti-infantry performance than several SU76/SU85 combined

PIV is stronger against infantry than the T34 is. Since the last buff to it, it now has the slightly more accurate gun, while having nearly 3.5 times the DPS of the T34 in machineguns when the pintle has been upgraded.

The Tiger maingun is much better than the IS2 against infantry, while they both have roughly the same DPS from machineguns (the IS2 MG dps being 90% from the munition upgrade, while the Tiger gets 50% from upgrade)

Don't try to say Panther, because nobody makes them.

ISU is in fact the only soviet armor unit that is notably better against infantry than its counterpart.

Aside from LMGupgrade, at Muni cost, Grens and Cons scale very similarly to late game.
Vet is unilaterally quite unilaterally balanced on that. So the base balance, is maintained.
Note: This is now inly comparing Cons and Grens, as was your argument. There is definately leeway for arguing Penals and PGrens also as native units, and even moreso on callin infantry, but those where not relevant to your own Cons/Grens specific comparison.

Yes, aside from the 60 munition upgrade that permanently increases the DPS of a grenadier squad by over 80%, they scale roughly equal to a conscript squad. That is if you ignore that riflenades and fausts are much more valuable than atnades and molotovs later on because of their greater range and damage/penetration.