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Thread: What do you think of an SU-85 buff?23 Oct 2014, 23:36 PM Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2014, 12:49 PMdrChengele I agree with everything you just said, sorry if I misread your tone and for being a bit dismissive. We are actually saying the exact same thing - a unit should be viewed through the lenses of the meta, not in a vacuum. The Su85 nerfs were put in effect so long ago that the tanks it used to fight (and the infantry supporting both sides) are completely different now. I completely agree that callins meta is preventing us from evaluating core units. That said, it is my position that the Su85 currently underperforms for cost, not because I want the glory days back, but because the medium tanks it's supposed to counter can a) flank it easily, b) penetrate it at all times, and its poor mobility means the Axis superior antitank infantry support can chase it off in an engagement and/or hunt it down effortlessly. An example how I think meta affects this discussion : if the Su-85 had the exact same stats and was up against the same tanks as now, but Soviets had Schrecks instead of the Germans (let's say parallel universe) I would probably think it is completely fine as is. No problem, I'm glad we agree. I feel the same about the performance for cost. It is quite expensive for what you currently get out of it and Ostheer have the same issue with T4. Everything you get from that tier is not cost effective. This is another reason why we are in this call-in meta trap. I would still like to see it used more in a correct meta before making actual changes. I also think this unit performs a lot worse vs OKW than vs Ostheer (mostly because of the panther and mass volks shreks). In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Forget the pershing, Jumbo 76 is where it's at23 Oct 2014, 23:27 PM I really like this idea. Adds a new 'type' of unit rather than just the same but beefier. I think this unit would synchronize really well with the US end game as well. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: BUG: Germans can reinforce using any bunker22 Oct 2014, 02:46 AM Good spot, but this should probably be put into the Bug section... In: Ostheer Strategies
Thread: What do you think of an SU-85 buff?22 Oct 2014, 00:40 AM Jump back to quoted post21 Oct 2014, 13:14 PMdrChengele No, the Su85 was nerfed to oblivion months before WFA. March deployment, april, may - these were NOT Su-85 friendly months. The Su85 suffered a series of crippling nerfs. It was much more mobile, could rotate like a motherfucker, and the vision ability did not slow it down. I am pretty sure its frontal armour could deflect most panzer shots. It was steadily nerfed. But this was in the olden times. Way back, when tanks costs and teching costs were completely different. Back when there were no Jacksons and Kingtigers and Jagdtigers. Back when the ISU was a laughing stock. "It was overpowered before!" okay, yes. "Therefore do not buff it ever again!" <-- logic fail. The unit should suffer forever for having been overpowered in a three-month period a year ago? I never once said what you are accusing me of a 'logic fail'. What I'm saying is this unit was OP before so it could easily become OP again if it's not managed correctly. It is something important to consider, not the entirety of my argument. As I ended my previous post with, wait until the meta changes then see how this unit performs rather than giving it buffs when it still probably won't be used due to the call-in meta. This is a much more reasonable approached than calling for blanket buffs for a unit that we can't even see how it performs properly at the moment because the meta is fucked. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Open Beta Changelog22 Oct 2014, 00:34 AM Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2014, 00:20 AMCruzz Couple of ninja changes, will take a while to actually shift through the patch so this is very much a work in progress. More tomorrow, perhaps. Paratrooper lieutenant/captain bonuses removed, accuracy bonus at vet2 nerfed back from 1.4 to 1.25* Stuart shell shock lost deflection damage (50% --> 0%), reload speed slowed (1.5 --> 1.75), scatter decreased Pack Howitzer AOE decreased from 6 to 4, scatter reduced Raketenwerfer can be suppressed .50 cal vet2 penetration nerfed to be same as vet0 gun (1.5 --> 1 far) EZ8 400/145 --> 380/140, Armor 215 --> 200 Ostruppen given 1.2 armor Sherman smoke wind up/wind down removed, reload shortened and scatter reduced. *Accuracy bonus nerf does not apply to Recon paratroopers Thanks for sifting through this. Will be interesting to see if some of these are unintended or they just forgot to mention. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Open Beta Changelog22 Oct 2014, 00:29 AM This patch is fricken amazing! Big changes in a really good way. Good job Relic, really. You have put all the doubters out there to shame. Great changes, my enthusiasm for this game has reached new heights. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: What do you think of an SU-85 buff?21 Oct 2014, 04:49 AM Jump back to quoted post21 Oct 2014, 01:46 AMNinjaWJ It doesn't perform well against anything above a medium. I don't think it is a call-in meta issue. THe call-in meta may lead to the unit not being built, but it still performs rather poorly as a TD. You do know there are only a select few call-in tanks that are above a medium? Even a panther is considered medium armor. To be honest, it shouldn't perform great against heavy tanks to begin with excepting a wall of them. And against the slower heavy tanks (such as the OKW king tiger) the SU85s actually perform quite well because the long sight and range takes advantage of this units slow speed (and once they get vet for the pen boost then they really shine). I disagree it performs poorly as a TD if used properly. It performs great as a long-range TD. It shouldn't be much stronger as it is if at all because its true strength lies in its range coupled with it's increased sight which allows it to snipe tanks (and sometimes snipe infantry). Pretty much the whole time before WFA this unit was an absolute beast bordering OP. (Anyone else remember the unbeatable SU85 + sniper spam?) However, it is hard to say absolutely atm because the meta is a bit fucked. I think definitely wait until the call-in meta is fixed before rushing to buff other units that will see a boost in use with this change. Once the meta changes and the battlefield is seeing a different mix of units and it is still lackluster, then consider some buffs but from my experience against other tanks of it's level it performs well. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: What do you think of an SU-85 buff?21 Oct 2014, 01:13 AM All of my nope. This unit is performing perfectly find as it is. I remember the days of the dreaded SU85 spam. I still have PTSD from those days... Seriously though, I think the main reason we don't see this unit much anymore is because of the call-in meta. Fix that first then we can see how the SU85 performs with the new meta. Yes it doesn't perform that great against heavy call-in tanks at the moment, but if both players tech correctly this thing performs great. Wait and see before changing I say. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Here are our hopes for oktober-patch21 Oct 2014, 00:59 AM Fix to call-in meta. Bug fixes. War spoils rework. Do these three things in that order and I'll be happy. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: introduce shotguns to americans!21 Oct 2014, 00:56 AM And all Soviets engineers should be able to build Tesla Coil Turrets and all conscripts get Bear Mounts! As an upgrade of course. In: COH2 Gameplay