Thread: T34/8511 Oct 2013, 19:30 PM
I forget about the ROLE OF T-34/85?For it's being the most expensive investment than any other German heavy tank?
T-34/85 finishing off a PZIV: (640/160)*8.575/(68.75%)=49.8909sec(WTF?)
T-34/76 finishing off a PZIV: (640/120)*4.875/(50%)=52sec
It's performance is no better than a T-34/76 but ridiculously 720MP/260FU to buy 2 of them, and it's doctrinal 4CP, even a people with a brain can tell this is FULL-RETARDED.
You are telling me the T-34/85 AI is better than the T-34/76 for it's firing 56.85% slower than the T-34/76 with same AOE radius but 3m better scatter?
A most expensive end-game tank investment loss to everything German can build is called "The role"
As for SU-85, have you ever use the SU-85 after the patch? Seriously, you haven't at all.
its only the "most expensive investment" because you get 2 tanks at once. so again, not a fair comparison. i already read your numbers multiples times in this thread. posting them again isnt going to change my mind. not sure why youre freaking out and trying to make things personal. your argument is weak and your numbers arent evidence of anything. apparently disagreeing with you means im brainless.
here, to prove my point, ill even make the su85 brummbar comparison for you:
su85 finishing off a brummbar: (960/160)*4.25/(85%)=30sec
brummbar finishing off a su85: (640/160)*8.5/(44.12%)=77.06sec (WTF?)
does this mean the brummbar needs a buff too? it is more expensive after all. using your logic, more expensive means it should win. i guess the brummbars role is most expensive non doctrinal tank that cant kill an su85. ill repeat this in case you missed it. i agree the t34/85 should be changed, i just completely disagree with your argument for why. as you can see from my comparison above, comparing tanks like this proves nothing.
also, i have used the su85 after the nerfs. i see nothing wrong with it. people just need to be smart with them and not leave focus sight on. if youre going to charge forward with it, just make sure focus sight is off cooldown so you can switch it off the second you need to back up. i really dont see what the issue is. not sure how you inferred that i havent used the su85 from my post anyway.
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Uhmmmm,no,the only advantage the SU-85 has over the Panther is it's range,and that dissapears as soon as the SU fires its first shot
dont forget the su85 fires every 4.25 seconds compared to 6.7 for the panther. the panther does still win because it has 50% more hp and pens much more reliably
If at some point in the future after more testing, the panther is still a problem, slightly decrease the rear armor of the panther. But I'm not even suggesting that change right now since the Vet changes in the November patch will likely help in dealing with this.
the panthers rear armor is already incredibly weak. most tanks have atleast 50% of their front armor in the rear. panthers have 42%. the only tank with a lower ratio is the elefant. AT nades already pen the rear of a panther 89% of the time.
Base speed is ok, imo.
However Blitzkreig on engine dmged armor is a problem throughout.
Id suggest changing it so that an engine dmged vehicle gets 50% of normal, undamaged speed, for its duration.
I think that is a reasonable compromise.
engine damage reduces speed to 40%, so blitz would only give you 10% more speed. that would probably be barely noticeable and not worth the munitions.
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Thread: T34/8511 Oct 2013, 17:00 PM
PZIV(320MP/115FU), T34/76(280MP/85FU), T-34/85(720MP/260FU,4CP for pack of 2)
PZIV finishing off a T-34/85: (800/160)*5.825/(88.7097%)=32.8318sec
PZIV finishing off a T-34/76: (640/160)*5.825/(95.6522%)=24.3591sec
T-34/85 finishing off a PZIV: (640/160)*8.575/(68.75%)=49.8909sec(WTF?)
T-34/76 finishing off a PZIV: (640/120)*4.875/(50%)=52sec
im not saying the t34/85 doesnt need a change, but spamming this math all over this thread isnt really "evidence" of anything. you tried doing the same thing when comparing the is2 and tiger. youre still using the logic "the soviet tank is more expensive, it should win" which is a flawed argument. youre completely ignoring the role of the soviet tanks.
just like the is2, the t34/85 has very low scatter. it also has good AOE. combine that with with only 110 pen and its pretty clear this is another AI focused tank. now before you get all mad, im not saying this is right or that i agree with it, im just analyzing the numbers. i actually agree with most of you when you say the soviets should have another tank for AT besides su85.
my point is, comparing tanks based on cost and ignoring roles doesnt make for a strong argument. try running your same numbers for su85 vs brummbar or t34 vs ostwind. both of these will result in the cheaper tank winning and isnt evidence of any kind of imbalance. |
I don't know, since I haven't played that much with or against Osttruppen, but purely from their stats they seem extremely cost efficient.
For 240 MP, you get units with 576 effective HP (20% more than Conscripts) and potential DPS equal of 160% of Conscript potential DPS (without cover - it's up to 320% if all squad members would be in cover).
They are obviously more vulnerable to splash/explosive weapons (due to lower HP of a single entity).
Still, it's only a "paper" look on them - they might work somewhat differently in game than their stats would suggest.
dont forget about this!
| squad_action_apply_ext: {
| | $REF: "sbpextensions\squad_action_apply_ext.lua";
| | actions: [
| | | apply_modifiers_action: {
| | | | $REF: "action\apply_modifiers_action.lua";
| | | | duration: 0f;
| | | | modifiers: [
| | | | | accuracy_weapon_modifier: {
| | | | | | $REF: "modifiers\accuracy_weapon_modifier.lua";
| | | | | | application_type: "apply_to_weapon";
| | | | | | exclusive: false;
| | | | | | modifier_id: "";
| | | | | | negative_tooltip: 11001736;
| | | | | | positive_tooltip: 11001737;
| | | | | | target_type_name: "hardpoint_01";
| | | | | | usage_type: "multiplication";
| | | | | | value: 0.5f;
they have a constant .5 accuracy multiplier. so when theyre in cover, they have the accuracy that is listed for their weapon, not double accuracy. |
Haven't played in a while,are PanzerGrenadiers invincible now,aka OP?
is that seriously what you got from reading this thread? no change was made... therefore invincible and OP.. |
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it really depends on luck. it can be amazing or a complete waste. this is because it the only nade i know of that has scatter (maybe a little too much scatter). ive been able to wipe multiple squads in a single building with it. i even killed an m3 with it the other day, although that was mainly do to my opponent getting overconfident since he was fighting assault grens. other times ive used it on conscripts or maxims and not killed a single entity. id say overall, its really only good for buildings, which (i think) is its intended use after all. |
Dont G43-Grens lose to Penals at close range?
grens with g43s do 20.24 dps near and 9.90 dps far.
penals do 34.67 dps near and 8.95 dps far.
so penals would win at close range, especially with a flamer. the issue is getting into close range. a gren squad should never charge penals as they would be giving up their advantage. so if grens are sitting still in cover while penals try to charge them, its hard to say who would win.
if you wanted to go completely overkill, you could also put an lmg on the grens (one of my friends does this quite frequently). this combo definitely got nerfed last patch, but would still give the grens 33.394 dps near and 12.224 dps far. then grens definitely have the advantage if they can set up the lmg in time. i just cant bring myself to invest that much into 1 gren squad. |
tensai, i was curious if youd be willing to compare your dps formula with mine? a lot of our numbers match, but some do not, like the mp44. your dps at near is 17% higher than mine and 8% higher at far. then for the assault gren mp40, your near dps is 8.5% lower but 6% higher at far.
at first i thought this was an issue with one of our burst weapon formulas, but our ppsh numbers match exactly, so now im not sure. our single shot weapons seem to match perfectly though. i also noticed your dps charts seem curved so im just curious how you did things 
just pm me if you want, since this isnt entirely related to this thread. |
this is already in the 250 ht file:
| | | ability: "m3a1_m5_moving_accuracy_mp";
which applies this:
| | | | | | | | | modifiers: [
| | | | | | | | | | accuracy_weapon_modifier: {
| | | | | | | | | | | $REF: "modifiers\accuracy_weapon_modifier.lua";
| | | | | | | | | | | application_type: "apply_to_weapon";
| | | | | | | | | | | exclusive: false;
| | | | | | | | | | | modifier_id: "steady_driving";
| | | | | | | | | | | negative_tooltip: 11001736;
| | | | | | | | | | | positive_tooltip: 11001737;
| | | | | | | | | | | target_type_name: "hardpoint_01";
| | | | | | | | | | | usage_type: "multiplication";
| | | | | | | | | | | value: 0.5f;
oops, just realized tensai beat me to it i dont really see why schrecks would get a scatter penalty as well though. as far as i know, no units recieve scatter penalties for moving currently. if anything needs a scatter penalty, id say start with the t70 and ostwind. |
80/4.8 = 16.66 vs. 80/4 = 20
Not sure where you got 34 and 33 from...
seems like he factored in accuracy then rounded one up and rounded the other down? (with accuracy, both result in 33.33)
but to expand on what pqumsieh said, it now takes guards exactly 20 hits to kill an entity. before it took 16 + 2/3 of a shot. 1/3 of that 17th shot was wasted. that is overkill. the only small arms weapons that still have overkill are the german base bunker, weapon crews (mp40s and mosins), pgren g43 and flamethrowers. i wonder if theyll change flamethrowers though, because accuracy is already 100% so they cant compensate for an adjustment in damage. |
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