Profile of CieZ

Sov Support teams have a full 1/3 more soak vs not only small arms (as well as on flanks) but everything else in the game.

You miscalculated Gren/CON DPS vs the factions Support crews because:
-A) You neglected to account for the additional effect of 2 additional rifles
-B) You neglected to account for those rifles doing dmg to a 4man unit, rather than a 6man unit, which is extremely significant
-C) You neglected to include the +25% dmg modifer on Support Crews, whihc further multiplies the effect of two additional rifles on Cons.
-D) You tried to argue that Grens are better DPS at mid/long range, when infact the per model DPS output is so minute as to be almost entirely irrelevant. Not to mention that minute difference is returned to Cons at close range.
-E) And again, in that, you failed to account for 6 rifles firing at 4men, at the same DPS PER rifle, as 4 rifles firing at a 6man.
-F) The difference is not "fine" as you claim, especially when younwhere wrong about the mid/long DPD BECAUSE YOU DIDNT MULTIPLY THE AMOUNT OF RIFLES VS MODELS HIT CORRECTLY.
-G) The difference is 8s/20/26s, which means its EVEN MORE PRONOUNCED AND LONG at the ranges you falsely presented Grens being "better at, because, as I stated before, ad nauseum, YOU FAILED RO MULTIPLY THE AMOUNT OF RIFLES VS AMOUNT OF TARGETS.

Basically, you posted a bunch of crap. You fucked up. You overlooked key elements.

Ive sent you an invite on Steam, and am willing to settle our personal differences in voice instead of spamming the forum up, wherafter hopefully we can return to the actual topic once you understand what you misrepresented.

Im a full time student and working on the side, but I have Chrismas break beginning this Friday. Name your time after that, and I will fit my schedule to it.

I already broke down every element of the math that I did, which DID account for four rifles on Grens versus six on Cons. Repeating the same statements over and over in the vain attempt that you'll actually comprehend why I'm typing is seriously getting tedious.

I'm still not going to waste my time on voice chat with you without first getting to play a series of games. I'll even give you map and faction preference - any map that is legal in 1v1 automatch, you can use any commanders and bulletins. Not that it'll help your obviously beyond terrible play. 40something% win as Soviet... give me a break.

You where wrong. You misrepresented the facts, either by accident, or because you had simply misunderstood them.

I understand thats hard for you to deal with.

And no, ofc, you wont voice chat. Why would you.
Pride goeth before the fall, and you have a very long way to fall from the false pedestal you've built yourself, Mr. Beta Spokesman and Tyrant extraordinaire.

Honestly, I find the level of personal involvement you've taken on this issue to be utterly pitiable. I genuinely pity you, Ciez, and Im not surprised you won't agree to discuss in voice. To take issues of a game so personally, is really quite worrisome, not to mention completely destructive of any opportunity for actual objective discussion on them.

You seem to have even removed me as a friend from Steam as well. I'm not surprised.
Your anger and personal indignation is practically palpable.

Whats wrong? You have a whiny voice or something?

If you have anything to add, do it in voice. Or don't speak to me, or of me, again.
If you aren't man enough to speak about it, thats your choice. But those are the consequences.

I'm here to discuss balance, objectively, impersonally and for the betterment of the game. If you can't do any one of those things, thats your problem, not mine.

I removed you from Steam because I already have a very full friend's list and I try to keep it pruned to people I actually play with/interact with - if you want to discuss things over Steam I can easily re-add you.

Funny that you try to say I have a poor voice when half of my job is speaking with and interacting with customers. I've been told countless times that I have a very pleasant and relaxing voice, but keep wrongfully assuming things. I honestly have nothing to say to you via voice chat as I'd rather spend the little time I get to play the game, actually playing instead of talking to a no-life pathetic nerd. Also, I'm at work right now so I can't really just hop on skype/vent/whatever. The only way I'd even consider talking to you via voice chat is if you actually 1v1'd me. But that will never happen because you're a huge pussy.

Please prove to me how I misrepresented or miscalculated. I didn't. I mathematically proved to you my statement and for like the sixth time please read this (copy/pasted from my post claiming that Grens have higher mid/far dps):

my instinct says that German weapon teams still die more quickly to small arms fire, but that's fine.

^ Please read that about 57 times since that's apparently how many times it is going to take of me repeating that statement for it to finally penetrate your affected brain.

Honestly, I feel like I'd have more success talking to a brick wall than you.

I've never claimed to be some beta spokesman or whatever you are trying to call me. I haven't even posted about the beta (aside from addressing your imbecile claims that I should remove myself from it) for like a month, if not longer.

Finally, if you're here to discuss balance impersonally, why do you feel the need to constantly and relentless throw personal attacks into your "arguments" especially after playing the ad hominem card whenever some one gives you a taste of your own medicine? Please, come back when your balls drop.

Its all there, Ciez. I've already countered your points. The Support Weapon stats, in and of the weapon themselves, are aligned, as I have explained. The cost is aligned (except for reinforce), as I have explained. The meta itself, in terms of counters, is aligned. What is not aligned, is the 1/3 better survival of Sov Support Teams, not only vs small arms, but everything else in the game.

And the fact remains you went full potato and overlooked that it is infact 6 full dps rifles vs 4man, and 4 dps rifles vs 6man.

Its a common mistake. People misunderstand, even to this day, the basic alignment between Cons and Grens. Same DPS, but 6man vs 1.5 armor 4man. You simply overlooked all these factors and made a glib and meaningless calculation for the one time in your life you probably actually looked at actual stats. Then you tried to argue that Grens would somehow be better vs Sov Support Teams at mid/long range, when infact, they take 20-26s longer to decrew at those ranges. Not to mention that in terms of Gren/Con range DPS, they are already aligned, with Cons performing better at close range, and Grens at long. But you failed your homework, hard, when you overlooked that they are infact firing at 4 unarmored models with 6 roughly same DPS rifles, whereas Grens fire with 4 roughly same DPS rifles at a full 6 man unit.

I don't expect you to admit your mistake. That would be unconscionable, and you are clearly the kind of guy, that even if he is wrong, he will never admit it, if he thinks the other guy is an asshole, because you think the latter takes priority. An honest person with intellectual integrity wouldnt take it personally, and simply admit mistake, thank for the correction, and move on with the discussion in an impersonal manner. The fact you want to reduce the entire issue as OP states, ie: the actual balance discussion and issue, to a juvenile 1v1 bout, further demonstrates this element of your character.

I'm not going to regress to your level of attempting to reduce the discussion to a 1v1. It has no bearing on the topic. If I won, you would still as vociferously deny your own mistake and lack of insight into the support crew survival discrepancy. If you won, it wouldn't change my view on this issue in the least.

I think its quite telling that because you cant cover your own mistake, nor discuss a balance issue with rational and objective attitude, you try to turn it into a fight. Again, hardly a characteristic that makes you desirable on a beta. I bet you try to shout down, insult and impugn people there, just as you do here.

You are as pathetic to me, as you claim I am to you. I'm still open to voice communication to discuss our differences, but ofc you have declined. I already earlier in the thread specifically offered we will have to agree to disagree, but the extent of your emotional involvement in an otherwise non-personal issue is so pervasive for you, and such a matter of importance in your personal world, that you just couldnt stop with more insults (and ofc, the embarrassment of misrepresenting Gren/Con DPS vs respective Support teams, which you still try to backpedal on).

Don't worry, dear Ciez. Sooner, or later, the Sov Support team 1/3 increased survival differential will be addressed in one form or another, as will the reinforce differential. I assure you of that. And I will still be here, then. Laughing in your face.

Still pathetic that you promise a 1v1 and then pussy out. I find it absolutely hilarious that you think you even have a chance of beating me. Nice 9 loss streak there bro.

Still ridiculous that you try to say I backtracked when I highlighted for you, twice, my statement that more than proves that I did not backtrack. And referenced it at least a total of four times. Seriously, how slow can you possibly be?

Still insane that you try and tell that my claims were incorrect after I mathematically prove to you that they were, in fact, correct.

I'm not going to waste my time on voice chat with some one like you. Sorry, not sorry.

My status in the beta is literally none of your concern, but I bet if you asked the other active beta members that they'd tell you that they have respect for me - and I've never shown even the slightest of bad manners towards any of them. In fact, you're one of the very few people that I'm not mannered towards. But that seems to be a common reaction for some one as unlikeable as yourself.

Enough of derailing a perfectly good thread though (common when you show up... oh in every thread, you must have the most pathetic life to post so often on these forums oh well and the fact that you're banned from everywhere else LOL). If you have anything else to say to me - an apology would certainly be in order - you can PM me or message me on Steam.

Inspired by recent SNF action...

Our RNG God, who art in Vancouver,
Hallowed be thy name
Thy Ram penetrates,
Thy Pak shall hit on Semoisky as it does on Kholodny.
Give us this day our daily blitzkrieg,
And forgive us our poor tank micro,
As we squad wipe the noobs who trespass against us,
And lead us not into annihilation,
But deliver us from flame crits.
For thine is the kingdom,
The power, and the damage tables,
Until the next Tiger Ace call-in.

Amen.

This literally made me laugh out loud while at work today. Thank you good sir for putting a smile on my face after having to go back to work after a week long vacation.

I need to memorize this and say it before each match.

Yeah, I didnt think so.

You going to 1v1 me?