Btw it's nice that the British Medics are back. While probablly being a niche unit, they add flavor to the game in the form of unique voice acting, unit models and unit portraits.
Talking about flavor of the game...
German molotovs are kind of an immersion-killer 
actually I like this suggestion. It would be weird if neither axis faction actually use the iconic potato masher as their regular nade. Assault nade kind of count but they are not that common.
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Yup, either Volks or Grens definitley need that iconic, recognizable asset. As Grens are the more advanced one of the two, I guess they are better suited for the more advanced Riflegrenade also. So Potato Masher to Volks!
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-Volkgren classic grenade should be given back, Flame grenades are really more suitable for Sturms...
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I agree with other users that incendiary grenades should be on Sturmpioneers, not Volks.
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One reason why I think indendiaries would be a lot better on Sturmpios is that on a cheap unit such as Volks, they immediately deliver that impression of molotovs, which is not very beneficial to the whole feel of the game as such equipment isn't really sth typically associated with the late-war army of germany. On Sturmpios, however, it would, IMO, leave the impression of a specialized ability that was given out to an aggressive elite unit (which is what Sturmpios represent).
The main gripe with the balance preview, however, remains the removal of the regular volks grenade. There is no non-doctrinal unit with this very iconic asset left in the game then. The 'Stielhandgrenade' should be more prominently represented in a WW II rts in my opinion. Volks were just the right unit for that. They wear standard issue uniforms. They look like units you'd expect to carry the potato masher, not some sort of Molotov.
(On a sidenote: Instead of such immersion-damaging experiments as replacing iconic regular grenades with seldom special incendiaries, why not give Conscripts regular grenades instead? I say, Molotovs suit the whole aggressive and suicidal theme of Penals way better. But that is another story and may stir up an argument on its own...) |
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I was hoping they would give incendiary grenades to Sturms instead of Volks. I still think it's really damaging to the ww2 feel of the game if german basic infantry throw the not-so-iconic incendiary grenade instead of the very recognizeable 'Stielhandgrenade'.
And Sturms are specialists. I don't get Relics logic. I see what they are trying to do gameplay-wise, but I dislike what it does to the game's persuasive power as a ww2 rts, and I also think incendiaries on Sturms would score a similar, if not better impact on gameplay (taking into consideration what I think it is they are going for). |
Shrecks on volks are ahistorical enough. Just like OKW as a whole.
I wouldn't say the faction as a whole is. Except for the name 
As for Panzerschreck, I don't know, maybe. The problem is, who else should have it? A german faction without it would be a bit weird. Many say, Sturmpios, the problem with that, however, is that their voice acting when carrying Schrecks is weird as their voice changes. I think Volks are the only unit with proper unique lines when carrying Schrecks. That alone limits the design-options.
The Stielhandgrenade however, without doubt, is a piece of equipment that suits the unit of Volks and what they're supposed to represent. Whatever Relic does with Incendiary grenades or Schrecks, the 'normal' grenade has to stay with Volks where it belongs! Everything else is just utter weirdness  |
I too would like it on SPs. Makes sense with their concept and role perfectly. Always bothered me the Sturmpioneers can't toss grenades until vet 3. I mean, one would probably have a better chance assaulting a building with actual grenades and a bolt-action rifle over having just an automatic rifle...there's a reason why modern soldiers keep using the former while they've also got the latter.
This. Sturms are perfect for this. They can't be spammed, they are combat engineers and they have assault rifles.
My thoughts exactly.
I look at the Wehrmacht as a general depiction of the German army, while the OKW is an advanced attack force that has the best of the best.
Hmm, that's only partially true. Many would see OKW as the western front army in general. Just look at the end of the Brits release trailer. That map shows the okw flag on the entire western front and Ost/Wehr in the east.
Many would in fact see OKW as a much broader representation than, say, PE was. Of course they have the 'advanced attack force' theme, though I'd rather speak of a high-technology and ressource starved theme, which again, can be seen as very general themes of a late war german force. |
It didn't broke anything for PE in coh1, it won't break anything in coh2.
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I don't know. I think PE always had less appeal as it lacked that general feeling of being representavive of a broader force of WW2. It felt like only 1 particular unit, like an army too specialized to have that kind of representative power. The absence of normal grenades and standard uniforms, from my point of view, actually did make PE less interesting from a design perspective. Also, wasn't Wehr being played more than PE?
Aside from that, I agree with the people who stated that the Incendiary Grenade suits Sturmpios better because they seem like specialists who would field such special equipment.
As far as I know the german army of ww2 did not issue incendiary grenades to regular soldiers across a broader front. On the other hand, the normal 'Stiehlhandgrenade' was quite common. So it remains a big immersion breaker for me.
If we are going to go by this logic than cons should dp28 upgrades and obers shouldn't exist let alone have stg44 upgrade. Video games are not here for authenticity especially coh2
Well, I wouldn't mind Cons having normal grenades, for starters.
While it is true that a game like CoH 2 is not suppossed to be 100% authentic, it is important that it evokes that general, slightly cinematic ww2 feel. Many people are attracted to the franchise because of the setting. The normal german 'Stielhandgrenade' is an iconic item of ww2 that will recognized by many. It is a thing typical of the Wehrmacht. As such, it supports the immersive power of the game by quite a bit.
(Btw, Obersoldaten seem to represent waffen ss units. Their uniforms, aggressive voice acting and the idle unit chatter of OKW seem to suggest that. So they did exist, just under another name ) |
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I understand that people demanded anti-garrison measures for OKW. But part of me finds it sad to see the normal Grenade gone from Volks.
My main concern is not that they get the incendiary, my concern is that they loose the normal grenade.
From an art and design perspective, that breaks the ww2 feel a bit. With their uniforms, Volks look like your typical regular soldiers... you'd expect these guys to throw the standard-issue grenade.
The Incendiary feels more special, more like sth more specialized troops would use. In my opinion, Sturmpioneers would be the appropriate feeling unit to have such equipment.
As I said, I see what they're aiming for from a gameplay perspective. But in such a game as CoH 2, immersion and the ability of the game to evoke some sort of a general ww2 feel are important. And that change as we see it in the preview, I feel, would lessen that quite a bit actually.
TL;DR: I am not against the Incendiary Grenade per se. I am, however, strongly against the removal of the Volks' standard-issue 'Stielhandgrenade' as Volks feel and look like a unit that should have the normal, basic grenade. I don't really care if Volks or Sturmpios get the Incendiary (though I'd prefer the latter), but I feel Volks should definitley keep the 'normal' Grenade. |
Fully agree with your argument and your conclusion. Sturms with incendiary, and Volks with Stielhandgranate. Change is still better than before.
But there will not be any incendiary spam for the muni starved okw, dont worry about that 
Yes, I was unsure about that 'spam' part when I wrote it, too, I must admit Though my argument stands, it's more from a design and immersion perspective anyways.
I really hope the Volks with Incendiary don't go live! Though I applaud Relics initiative, the Incendiary is just with the wrong unit I feel. |
Nice change, tho I liked the fact that Volksgrenadiers used a "normal" Stielhandgrenade.
Same here, I think the incendiary grenade should have gone to Sturmpioneers.
Yep. Definitley. Volks look like basic german frontline dudes. They, out of all the units, should have the very recognizeable and WWII-typical regular 'Stielhandgrenade'. Plus, the incendiary one suits the aggressive spirit of the Sturmpioneers (voice acting) way better!
Basically, it feels really weird to see Volks like that and takes away a bit of the typical ww2 feel when german basic infantry is throwing incendiaries all the time.
Also, it is weird from a gameplay-design perspective, also: They get sth that is (probablly) similar to soviet molotovs. Yet, soviets have to pay for an upgrade and Volks are even cheaper than Cons. I would imagine it could become quite annoying when the new Volks Incendiary is being spammed. It would just be too much incendiary to feel right.
Plus, it would provide a bit more incentive to go Sturmpios early-game if they had that extra anti-garrison capability. This again would encourage more varied OKW starting builds.
They should rethink that change! |
I think the soviet skins are kinda good (especially Penals and Shocks). They give you that soviet feel, whereas Ostheer seems weird and does not support the WW2 eastern front atmosphere very well (except Osttruppen!).
They could, however, make sth that is what OKW is to Ostheer: A 2nd soviet faction with unit designs that fans of the nation want. So Guards with helmets, actual Stelky with stock PPsH upgrades, real Combat Engineers (with Body armor and strong, kind of what Sturmpios are to normal Pios), latewar stock tanks etc. Then every nation would have at least 1 ''fresh'' representation ... and we could just ignore the vanilla facions
But that's a whole different story... |
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No, I'm not annoyed at all. I don't care about DLC commanders. The faction is what counts for me: skins, uniforms, voice-acting, gameplay-feel etc. The DLC commanders are icing. I ignored them with WFA because the 3 stock commanders of OKW and US seriously seem the most polished and interesting designs to me. With the UKF, I will admit, the 3 DLC commanders seem at least as neat as the stock ones. But still, it's only commanders, only icing for that matter. I don't need that. |
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