In the case of shocks, evidently you forgot that shocks have 1.5 armor so even IF all the shots from the 5 gren models were to roll hits, unless they also ALL rolled pens they wouldn't actually down a single shock model.
Against paras, you need to knock out at least two models before you start trimming off their firepower since the Thompson paras have 4 Thompsons which are favored over the m1s. Lmg paras you'd need to take out 4 of them, but against lmg paras the grens have to charge anyway and the likelihood that you'll land all 5 shots on the same model while on the move at mid-long range with grens is so statistically improbable that its not even worth considering.
But even if I grant that a single model of these 6 man elite infantry squads is downed early, do you really think that the 5 man gren squad will be a able to stand toe to toe with 5 shocks in close range? Or 5 Thompson paras in close range?
Yes, against units like conscripts, non bren sections and stock rifles this is a big deal. Its largely irrelevant against elites-or at least not significant enough to tilt an otherwise fair engagement in their favor.
Well, if you understand the game so well why not tell sander93 or some other member of balance team that. I'm sure they'll have the same opinion as you at the end. And grens don't need to win they need to cause damage while sustaining less damage them selves. if you loose 1-2 model of your elites before you can even start to damage a 5 man gren that still a win for gren. they'll just retreat with all the mp loss going to you.
Again LMG para's are a lot squishier compared to the old 5 man gren. They'll loose a lot more models before grens loose same amount of mp. |
Assuming both were full health and equal vet, it absolutely would be out of the question.
In a 1v1 standing fight if panzergrenadiers or 6 man PFs couldn't deal enough damage to shocks on approach to result in a win, neither could 5 man grens who sported lower damage output.
I see you are unaware of what the problem was. Each weapon from Grens did 16 damage per shot. 16*5=80. There are often occasions when Units like Rangers/Paras/shocks charge in they have a leading model this mean all 5 gren models target that one model and in 1 volley kills it. Even if you think these guys have lower damage this is what caused them to be able to take down much stronger squads. This problem was prevalent when sections used to be OP. There are some fundamental mechanics that goes beyond dps numbers. Like let me give you a FPS example. In CS GO the m4a4 has a dps of 366 while the awp(sniper) has only 79 dps. But people will tell you that awp is a lot stronger than the m4a4. DPS means nothing if get insta killed.
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You said "old 5 man gren could 1v1 every type of elite infantry and win."
well they can't deal with every thing. But it's not like 1v1 ing these and getting a favorable result would be out of the question. |
They cut shock troops to ribbons? I'm also pretty sure they didn't fare that well against m1919 paras. Saying 5 man grens are/were too good is one thing, saying they clobber elite infantry is another.
1 no 2 would definitely be too much for shocks and lmg paras. |
Ok, but isnt this similar to the old churchill? That thing had a shit gun too. But it was so oppressive that its popcap got nerfed 2 times in a row and therefore has more than a panther now.
Well, church's have better pen, and it had like 2x the hp(1.6x technically) and 5 man sections back then were simply OP. |
Maybe I should try that one more often then. I have rarely seen people play it (well), but this obviously depends on game rank.
In 4v4 people tend to blob alot, B4's can absolutely wreck you if you do that. Just today I killd a p4 along with 3 gren squad. Was Hilarious. |
Can someone explain to me why the Kv-1 can survive 3 Pak43 shots?
well it technically has 1000hp, pak43 has a damage of 320.
The Kv-1 has 14 popcap and costs 420 mp and 145 fuel. Pretty similar to P4J. But it has the defensive stats of the P5 not the P4. Sure its gun is slightly weaker, but it can threaten medium tanks. Ofc its not on P5 lvl, but something like 450 mp/150 fuel and 15/16 (Panther has 18) popcap seems more reasonable.
I think it's price is fair. It's not so stong as to warrant a price increase. It's defensive, it's job is to waste time of you opponent when they trying to kill it. It's damage output is ok and it's slow. Persing and Panthers are very good at what they do which is kill.
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I see Soviets players play commanders outside of the KV1. And the only doctrine that is regularly played is Guard Rifle Combined, which indicates that the KV1 is not so OP
Well every one has access to that commander, no one has to buy it or grind for it. That is a large part why you mostly see KV1's from GMCA. You need to keep that in mind. |
I'd rather nerf the KV1 from "too strong" to "slightly too strong" and keep three commanders viable instead of nerfing it to potentially UP and kick out three commanders forever.
Well I'm not saying that KV1 itself is "too strong", I'm saying that army you can afford to field is "too strong" at least against Ost. I'm ok with how tanky it is, it's just the flexibility of the composition I say should be lowered a bit. |
How are you going to squeeze 2 CEs into 2 spare pop you'll have?
You don't need to have all 6 models on you ATG's or MG to make them work bro. And do the math your self. I Think I might have been a mg/atg more
but still is enough. |
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