These are the ones for the Tiger. The IS-2 has a 1 in 6 chance, so ~16.7%
I could have sworn that the shock chance for the IS2 was removed in the update that bumped up its penetration and damage. Can't find the patch notes though.
And the Tiger does seem to stun the IS2 quite a lot from my (anecdotal) experience. I had one stun my IS2 two or three times consecutively in one engagement.
Given that the IS2 is better all-round and still dominates nearly everything one-on-one, though, and hunting armor is the Tiger's niche, I don't think the Tiger needs an adjustment in that department. Maybe if the Tiger's penetration was upped from the rather strange 154 value to maybe 170 or so, just to solidify its role as a primarily anti-armor tank, then the whole 'crew-shock' thing could be dropped entirely - instead of an RNG factor that, as the user of the tank, you can't count on to work, and as the recipient of the stun, you get frustrated by for being screwed over by the (bad) luck of the draw. |
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Actually I would like Gebirgsjagers... not as elite infantry, but rather as two-or three-man stealth squads at 0CP for 100-150mp. Low combat power, but good for recon/stealth capping (and maybe ambush fausting. |
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Seems like the Assault Grenadier price change has had the effect of returning a-gren openings to prominence. Here's a replay versus one such example- conscripts to maxims to ATGs to IS2 vs lots of agrens, pioneer flamethrowers, sdkfz 250s, Stug Es and a Panzer 4. |
lol gota check the replay just because of those comments. what did they do they trenched in front of your base?
I haven't seen the replay, but I believe it was massive scout car spam from games I've seen on Sturmtigerjamin's stream.
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It is possible to stream-cheat with multiple screens. Don't think barton has a double monitor set up though, or he wouldn't have to minimize the game when waiting in automatch
Just want to point out the sneaky wall-vault at 33:12 to get into Symbiosis's base. Very nice trick there. |
You see him micro his Shocks all the way to the right of the wall to avoid the mg of Symbi which he hasnt seen. I think somebody got streamsniped :/
At 17:42 his Shocks ran into the same mg and got suppressed, and it looks like Symbiosis didn't move it until the 19:50 where Barton's shocks ran round the side of the map and flanked. Most likely Barton just remembered rather than stream-cheating.
GG to both, was a good game to watch. |
@Strummingbird: The following is a false statement.
I dont understand why you waste your time trying to justify by all manner of contrived means what is still a false statement.
It is false if you look at it from a certain angle- a two-man pioneer squad counts as a 'squad of german infantry', and it does less DPS than a fully manned Shock squad, so yes, technically it is false.
But the intent of the statement (or how I read it at least) was that German squads, in general, have equal or greater DPS than equivalent Soviet squads in the majority of the situations in-game, as I already explained. Hence, when looking from a gameplay perspective, German squads will, for the most part, do more DPS than the 'counterpart' (or rough counterpart) Soviet squad due to a combination of upgrades, doctrine/non-doctrine factors, and tier layout of both factions. Therefore, it can be regarded as the truth from another point of view, one I think is altogether more reasonable given that absolute truths are near impossible to pin down with certainty without many, many stated exceptions and caveats, all of which can possibly be inferred by the reader.
I'm sure Blovski will, of course, be happy to explain what he actually meant by the statement, so I won't project further my opinions onto his statement. |
Which is not representative of the entire potential, only of one narrow extreme.
It is ONLY true at that maximum potential, which is achieved through a combination of cost, unit retention and veterancy, and is present only for a fraction of the game.
LMG grens I believe are more commonly used than PPSH scripts. PGrens I don't see that often now, maybe a squad every game? but still more common than Shocks. I haven't faced or used or seen Penals used for a very long time either. Guards aren't exceptional anti-infantry for their cost but they aren't bad either with the DPs.
So technically he's right- German infantry squads do more DPS at maximum potential, have equal DPS (never lower by any significant amount) at most stages of the game (discounting penals), have greater potential without doctrine, and only Shocks come close to the DPS of Pgrens when including doctrines. LMG grens out-damage everything else, and they appear without CP requirement or tech requirement. A not insignificant number of players get them with their first 60 munitions, which is usually four-five minutes in without the high munition point.
So, not really for just a fraction of the game...
Though the caveat is that this is all just meaningless comparison- shocks still wipe the floor with PGrens, inferior DPS notwithstanding, for example. |
All good points, except for this shoehorned addition, which is a false premise.
At their maximum potential, it's true. PGs outdamage every other squad, Shocks at all ranges and Penals up close, Grenadiers with LMGs and AGrens outdamage all possible conscript and guard (minus PTRS) iterations, not even considering G43s, and Pioneers win out over Engineers up close too. Maybe Penals could do better with flamer AOE, but just looking at numbers the Germans have generally peak at higher DPS.
new Kharkov one seems to be far better for the LHS player as well
I feel the same way too when playing it, but I'm not sure why- distances from the base to the points are quite similar, and the distance from the cutoffs to the centre is roughly symmetrical
German sniper requires tender love and micro to get any use out of him regardless but thanks to his really low HP pool
I can't micro snipers to save my life, but watching people stream and use them effectively (Symbiosis, Stephenn, Barton, etc etc) I don't think they're that bad, especially since Soviets don't go T1 that often now.
The rest I agree with- the next patch will apparently address AT gun vs small vehicle accuracy and the over-the-top veterancy. |
One thing though: I think it's a mistake not to give conscript support an AT. A whole doctrine with no AT in it is not going to be viable. Remember that the german side will always use vehicles and tanks.
Shock Motor, Anti-Infantry, NKVD, Shock Army and Terror have no doctrinal anti-tank assets early on or at all either. No doctrinal guards, mark vehicle, camoflauge AT guns, call-in tanks, or call in AT guns just means you have to make do with AT guns or tank destroyers.
Personally I use Shock Army or Shock Rifle Frontline in nearly all my games, and AT guns + AT nades + Mines tend to work for me without doctrinal assistance. If scout cars/flamer halftracks are giving me problems then I fall back to the perennial Guards Rifle Combined Arms. You can't expect every doctrine to have the counter to everything, else people would just choose one doctrine over all others all the time. |
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