Yeah, I just looked it up. Not only does the Pershing have less HP but also the mobility stats are so negligibly better it makes no difference. If this is the idea of "more mobile, less armoured Tiger" then it might as well be a straight Tiger copy. Panther has better mobility and that's not even a doctrine tank.
Truth be told. Mobility is not doctrine bound. Panther has a role of it's own and is expensive. Shouldn't be compared to pershing as the Panther is a direct Pershing counter. Panther is the counter of every heavy tank. Unlike Jackson, which relies on it's mobility and range (60) to deter tanks, Panther uses armour/HP/range(50)/mobility to destroy tanks. Plus it has a pintle MG which can bleed infantry nicely. One should not compare Panther and Pershing tbh |
This seems to be related to the IMAGE QUALITY setting. When set to HIGH I get grass everywhere. When set to LOW I only get grass on half the screen.
So it seems like a speed optimization and probably was always like this.
Yes. It was always like this. It's a draw distance all the way from COH1. Unlike most games, where you can specify exactly which settings you want to tweak in-game, here, pretty much everything is bundled up in Image quality (from draw distance, over shadows to post-processing) |
It doesn't feel like it at all. Does it have the same HP and main gun stats? Because it feels a lot less survivable and less damaging than a Tiger. Granted it gets shot by and shoots at Panthers and other bullshit like that but it's AI performance feels lacking especially.
To be precise. Pershing has a better gun in terms of damage/penetration. It has worse ROF. Compared to Tiger OFC. Tiger also has better bonuses for it's main gun (extended range, etc).
The reason Pershing doesn't feel more agile than a Tiger is because it's not THAT more agile (you can get full stats here https://coh2.serealia.ca/#). Basically the Pershing is a turtle while Tiger is a tortoise (on land both). |
Pershing does not compete with Jackons or Shermans, just like Tiger doesn't compete with Panzers and Panthers. It's a heavy, and as such you expect it to perform these roles, which mediums simply cannot:
- Provide staying power, the ability to directly remain in a fight for longer periods of time before resorting to hit/reverse strategy.
- Converting recuperation costs from resources (manpower, fuel) into repair time, thus helping to spread resource/repair economy more evenly across your composition and generally saving resources in the long run.
- Frontload DPS into big blasts, resulting in more wipes.
- Fitting multiple roles (damage sponge, AI, AT) into relatively small amount of pop, making your overall composition more efficient in relation to popcap.
Tiger can do all of that in accordance with its price. IS-2 too, but being more clunky and less dangerous at that, hence its lower popularity. Pershing kinda does fit these roles too, but does so at a very high price despite having comparably low durability, which is the key stat if you want it to perform well at #1, #2 and #4. As such it's simply not so desirable at its price, especially considering that sticking to the baseline composition is goood enough and leaving you with the option to pick the best possible doctrine.
I mean, isn't this general knowledge? Heavy tanks are best generalists. A sherman and a Jackson cost 28 pop cap while the Pershing costs 19. That 9 pop can be utilized into other units. While heavy tanks are not needed in 1v1s. 2v2+ they shine. Let's not kid ourselves, Pershing is OK at best, but it's still a meme unit compared to other heavies. If you compare it side by side ( https://coh2.serealia.ca/#21) to Tiger, a sort of mirror heavy, you'd see that the only thing Pershing has better is the AI cannon. And that's slightly better. Accuracy and moving accuracy are better on the Pershing but since it's a heavy tank, you don't really expect it to run and gun anyways, so that stat is not as important as on a TD or generalist tank. It's a bit more agile but also not important most of the time (unless you use your heavy tanks as divers) |
I think you should look up what wehraboo means. Also yes, Pershing is average to bad. It's a fun unit but it is in no way competitive, considering it's price and performance. The rest of the doctrine is nothing to write home about either.
Actually, the doctrine is great IMHO. The offmap smoke is absolutely great in a pinch. Saved my ass plenty of times. Sandbags/mines is great. Rangers are a bit pop heavy but put 3 zooks on them and you have a medium killing squad that does not have the range of the AT gun but also much more mobile + nade (great for baiting tanks into them). The only ability I never used is the combined arms. It shines if you blob the shit out of an enemy during some pushes but other than that, too expensive for my blood.
People saying that they had fun with Pershing is such an indicator of it's non-meme status... I still play the Pershing commander quite often. Also, one big fat lie I spotted is having Pershing and JacksonS (multiple). Unless you have no rangers/paks/AT guns/AA HT or anything like that, you won't fit a Pershing and Jacksons into a winning roster, especially not if the enemy has more than one AT gun.
I also never play the Sherman. Not planning to get a tank just for it's AI and god forbid another tank charges and you have to switch shells. Pak howis and AA HT do the trick just fine.
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Wolverine would need some serious looking into if Jackson were ever to be brought down in terms of AT. The only times I remember getting a Wolverine was when first trying the doctrine out and after that only if I/my team was completely rolling over the axis.
On that note including the Pershing in any list but a meme one shows how little some people know about how mediorce it is.
Everyone knows how mediocre pershing is. Nobody dares to touch it ATM because you'll see a lot of whereaboo screams. Wolverine is actually not that bad. Used it a couple of times in 3v3s to great effect with it's hit and run. It does fall off once the heavier stuff starts rolling out, but the whole point of playing USF in teamgames is to lock down the game early on. Don't think it's possible to win super late game vs a good OKW/OST combo players (as USF without soviets in team) |
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Jackson should not and will not be changed when you have 260 armour stock tanks on both axis teams with a non doctrinal King Tiger. Not to mention the 234 armour on OKW P4 and 230 armour on JP4. Same as why allies have TDs with such range and firepower.
I still stand by what I said about the E8. Buff armour a bit and cannon AI by even less and increase fuel by 10. |
Tbh I sleep on that ability too much.
I just like being able to hammer out a Pak howi super fast.
After the patch you won't be needing to anymore xD.
Played a lot of custom USF games with the patch mod and pak howi definitely took a big hit to autofire. If you're aware and active, getting a fast AA HT first can be beneficial now, especially vs light vehicles (until puma arrives). It's AI is a bit wobbly. It will either suppress in an instant troops behind cover, or it will struggle to kill a red shield volks squad. Just don't forget to stop it so it fires it's cannon. |
i stand by what i said.
a panther that can self heal with rifles infront of it and jacksons behind it is a horrible idea
[From a standpoint of 3v3 player this response]Agreed
a slightly improved Sherman is also a bad idea, not to mention super boring and then it could also overshadow other armour and would directly compete with every single Sherman variant there is.
Don't know why anyone would go for a slightly improved Sherman in the first place
an OP commander to surround it doesn't even need further explanation.
True
the E8 gives you medium armour supremeacy. its nearly as durable as an okw P4 but with much more pen, meaning itll beat it in a slugging match, let alone the ost p4... its got great resilience to all non heavy AT the axis can field, stugs, JP4s, pumas, even shreks will all struggle with the armour.
Stug will penetrate it most of the time in long range (170/215), JP4 will penetrate it most of the time as well. Shrecks will not struggle as well. About 75% chance I believe, or sth like that on long range. Pumas on long range will, but Puma is not really at E8 timing a unit that you really want to use all the time against it, that's why Stugs and paks and raketen are there. Good for sniping though. OKW P4 will struggle against it, but not a huge struggle. OST P4 will struggle more, that's true.
while its true the dozer sheamn can slug with p4s too, it cant guaranteed win aggaint them and it pays for the power with reduced speed.
the dozer sherman is more like a churchill, while the E8 is poised to be more like a comet. of course nither are at that caliber but thats the closest likeness in game.
True, but don't see the point of that comparison. At least not on hindsight. Dozer has it's uses.
the tank itself is great, the commander around it is poor making the tank undesirable, and no it doesnt need calliopee/pershing/priest/105dozer/rangers all in 1 slot to make the tank viable...
That's true. The E8 needs slight buff to it's survivability and even slighter buff to it's AI with a slight price increase. At least IMHO.
aside from the commander, there lies the issue that usf doesnt really NEED a front line brawler, or a front line AT tank at all for that matter. the jackson can out fight any axis armour if there is a spotter, and some even without. the fact that the jackson is SO good against all targets means something like an E8 m10 or 76mm sherman dont really have a place.
improving stock MEDIUM AT and toning down the jackson in this area will open up space for these medium AT options in doctrines which in combination with a rifle commander overhaul would give the E8 a great space to shine.
Wouldn't really agree. In 1v1 it might not need a frontline brawler but in games where the artillery and heavy tanks rule the day, it's better to have something that can engage infantry as well if needed. Had many times where perfectly positioned mines and TDs were overwhelmed by (King)Tigers and a couple of Panthers with artillery shelling the whole place before the tanks move in to trigger mines. Once the Panthers and Tigers started rolling out, Jacksons, SU85s, etc. were obsolete due to the sheer HP of that mass. Truth be told, that happened on Fart Of Hamburger map which is a hooorible map and such pushes are viable since the TDs don't have a lot of maneuvering room once the push occurs (plus sight blockers)
in short, the commander doesnt offer enough for the E8 and the jackson also overshadows it. thats why we dont see em, not because its bad, but because its not NEEDED and the commander is so terrible, its not even worth picking for the fun of it.
True. And true that Jackson overshadows the E8 but IMHO, only because the E8 does not offer a big enough edge over mediums to be viable (that's why I think a small buff to armour is needed). The only tank it really takes a dump on is the OST P4. It will win vs OKW P4, but not by a large enough margin to actually go for it. I've used the E8 and it is indeed a good tank but the statistical margin for it's armour vs axis cannons is not really in favor of picking a doctrine for it. But that's the commander issue.
COMMANDER REVAMP IDEAS
- flares/flamethrowers also gains the old recon company forward observers ability- it was buggy, but as a passive in an already ok ability and it focusing around improving rifles... seems ok to me. minor but still a nice extra
fire up do... more. idk what, increased rof on garands?
perhaps move the WP barrage to the E8 smoke pots, minor change, but gives E8s a bit more AI.
Might be either too OP or too expensive. Can't tell
fill remaining slot with something, perhaps m1919s? an off map perhaps?
M1919 does not really synergize with fire up. Bars dominate if moving and shooting. Offmap might be better
something like that will be enough i feel, to make the commander attractive despite the state of the jackson, although imo a jackson change is needed for the health of many USF AT options. again, stock options will need tweaked as a result, but itll open the door for doctrinal options which would be great for diversity.
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I usually let me CPT get down to 1/2 models then leave him at base to supervise.
Dude, captain and his "on me" and smoke is indispensable in game. Literally just walk your riflemen first into an MG, quick suppression, On Me!, run behind the MG. It's super effective. How can anyone not use the captain!? |
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