"Volks have less taget size that any other mainline, aka less durable.
They don't outdps allies wfa mainlines regardless of vetting anyway."
I SAID what is written down there, STOP STRAWMANNING...
Cover bonus IS is implemented by accuracy and cooldown multipliers on their weapons, they don't get ANYTHING ELSE, RA remains unaffected.
Even the in game description and the website guide says it's an offensive bonus that affect dps.
https://www.coh2.org/topic/50217/infantry-sections-cover-bonuses-and-design
Can you please stop talking shit, your claims are outright false and the fact that you bitch about "TRUE" facts makes you look even dumber..
From the EFA/WFA Rework Mod page:
"Cover Bonus
- RA from Vet0 removed
- Vet2 increases accuracy by 8% while in cover
- Receives a passive cooldown/reload bonus of 0.94/0.89 to partly offset cover penalties"
But I guess the mod team has NO idea what they're talking about and just removed a completely fictional RA bonus that doesnt even exist. Also, I never mentioned your received accuracy point anywhere in my initial reply. Go ahead and look again. You made a statement about dps, and I replied that it depended on whether you were counting squad or model dps. Then you brought up recieved accuracy even though I never replied to that point. I won't comment on the fact that you just called me out for "talking shit" and making "outright false" claims" when I have significantly better support than you do. |
1) The discussion was about DURABILITY.
2) No cons have more durability at vet 3 than volks at vet 5,0.6 vs 0.81.
3) If you care so much about true statements, you may want to find out that IS additional cover bonus is just dps 
4) triggered ? Why ?
Except that you mentioned dps, and I was replying to your point about dps. 3 is flat out wrong. |
Completely different point but I'm pretty sure that usf doesn't have one thing nondoctrinally that okw doesn't have nondoctrinally, but it's not even close when you flip it the other way around.
Actually usf has smoke and Scott but that's literally it. Meanwhile usf needs doctrine for kubel analogue, flamers (okw too but they have lavanades), normal accessible mines, stuka analogue, kt analogue, obers analogue, panther analogue, having both an mg and an atgun without backteching (AB doc), even sandbags (lmao).
A few other things (but im reaching pretty far here):
One shot/immobilize mines
Mobile suppression vehicle (flak ht has to set up while usf aa ht can fire on the move and has no setup time)
Anti infantry upgrades for their engineer units (bars for REs, given that sturmpios already have great vanilla performance this essentially equalizes their combat ability, but i thought id mention it anyway)
Tank traps
Fighting positions
Caches, if these last 3 even matter much
And thats about all i could think of |
Wasn't complaining about the XP gain but the poor average killing value of the unit. A mortar is supposed to kill models, not just damage them.
Id argue that thats a snipers job, not a mortars. In my opninion, a mortars job is to force units to reposition. If the enemy does that, it will only do damage and not get kills. |
No that's a fact, called target size.
Volks have less taget size that any other mainline, aka less durable.
They don't outdps allies wfa mainlines regardless of vetting anyway.
Yeah, I know what target size is. I also never mentioned volks' durability, but whatever gives you an excuse to act condescending, I guess.
Ahh, whats more, you probably mean to say that they have a "greater" or "larger" target size, since "less" target size would mean more durable. Still, thats not even true because cons have a larger target size. Anyway, thats taking all of it out of context since infantry sections have a smaller target size but one less man, giving them a theoretical eqyal durability to volks against small arms fire (discounting the RA bonus from tbeir cover bonus). Not that you care, I'm sure actual facts wont stop you from making statements that rely on taking facts out of context (not that you get thsoe facts correct anyway) and acting condescending. |
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With two okw signups being higher than me, could I instead declare for brits?
If so, declare for brits.
Ban breakthrough and spec ops. |
Infantry meta went back to what it was before Stuart/T70 dominance,
Except for:
Volks gaining STGs and IA power.
Penal from useless to mandatory vs OKW
Volks STG signed the end of Cons (and Cons aren't really dominating anything) and USF infantry domination.
I mean, from a design perspective each faction has its own flavor at the beginning:
- Ostheer have strong early support tools and weak mainline infantry, and that can be replace not so lately by a medium/good elite infantry squad that must be vetted to become monsters.
- Soviet have weak but numerous and cheap units that must be completed with Doctrinal elite units.
- OKW have right of the bat elite squad, weak but numerous mainline infantry and a variety of expensive but effective tools and premium access to super late game units.
- USF have a strong mainline infantry, that must be vetted to compete with elite squads, weaker support tools and split into T1=AI tools T2=AT tools and zero late game units.
What remains today
- Ostheer have strong early support tools and weak mainline infantry, and that can be replace not so lately by a medium/good elite infantry squad that must be vetted to become monsters.
- Soviet have weak but numerous and cheap units that must be completed with Doctrinal elite units. ==> Soviet's weak but numerous units can't do shit anymore vs OKW and you must go Penals or die.
- OKW have right of the bat elite squad, weak but numerous mainline infantry and a variety of expensive but effective tools and premium access to super late game units. ==> OKW mainline infantry isn't weak anymore thanks to STGs AND Lavanade.
- USF have a strong mainline infantry, that must be vetted to compete with elite squads, weaker support tools and split into T1=AI tools T2=AT tools and zero late game units. ==> VS OStheer, Riflemen remain strong but vs OKW Volks compete on the same league at all stages.
We can argue RM still have the upper hands in terme of raw stats, but in the reality, RM need to unlock BARs, to retreat to pick them at the base, RM doesn't have early access to FRP, RM doesn't have auto-heal at vet3, RM need to unlock grenade to use it and Volks lavanade is simply the best grenade in game.
If I pickup this comment from you
In any cases, volks would not lose thanks to the lavanade. Even if you must insta retreat your volks squad after, that will be the same for the opposing squad. Volks can rush everything, even a .50 or a vickers thanks to the super suppression resistance and throw a lavanade, there isn't a single other squad that can do that.
I can only imagine the volks losing if the squad has to go through negative cover.
What suppression resistance?
And yeah, turns out core infantry has to have vet against elite infantry or else they lose, thats how itd supposed to work.
Yeah, cons and maxims arent that effective. Doesnt change the fact that soviets do have penals, do go penals, and that volks have to compete with them. Soviets lack diversity and only have ~2 real strategies, but these strategies are also really strong.
Id agree that the m1 at gun is a weaker support tool, but the .50 is quite good.
Youre right, incendiary nades create a situation where the volks *can* win. Incendiafy nades are obviously an issue. Still thats a situation where the okw player spet 30 munitions and lost 25 manpower because he dropped a model in which the allied player can retreat and take the resource win, or stay if the engagement is still favorable; by charging and going for the incendiary nade, control is put into the allied players hands.
Finally, yeah, usf has so much side tech that it makes me sad. |
Why? Volks are less durible and do less dps than other allied infinity
Depends on the range and whether one is talking about squad dps or model dps. Your claims imply theyre overall worse than allied infantry, but theyre probably a similar efficiency at vet 0. Id say theyre slightly less efficient than riflemen, but thats fine because riflemen are supposed to be strong and efficient.
Anyway, I'm opposed to a squad cost increase becuase i dont think it addresses or fixes any of the issues with volks. |
Before the reign of Stuart/T70, Volks had shreck upgrade and that was it. OKW were struggling in other forms link to their stupid design but they weren't inferior due to a lack of AI power on Volks. Shrecks have been removed because of incredibly stupid volks blob that was sniping any vehicule and the incredible fast vet they were gaining from it.
In the current meta, you are not supposed to win vs OKW as USF on early game.
Sturm > RE, RM
Volks = RM
Kubel > RM = RE
Your post isnt really related to anything I said. My point was that making a claim along the lines of "volks worked when they didn't have stgs" (and had schrecks) is an irrelevant comparison because the factions were so different at the time. Also, yeah, okw are expected to win against usf early game...still not really related to anything that I said though. |
Yeah the 1919 is basically a straight upgrade except for on the move (and maybe the fact that you can sort of circle/juke out the lmg guy in close quarters since he so often goes prone), but it does, in my opinion sort of change the role of riflemen to an extent, since with bars or vanilla they are supposed to be mobile and flanking aggressive units, but with lmgs, they can sort of function more as a hold the line type squad with a little less mobility and close range power. Bars and volk stgs are different in the fact that they literally just add firepower to the squad with no performance caveats or role changes of any sort. And yeah, the opportunity/cost case is there too, as it's definitely something to think about when getting bars or an lmg.
I get it, but its not like brens change the role of Infantry Sections or that ppshs change the role of cons. Sections will play the same, and cons will play the same. It's just that theyll be more effective when they do it. I don't see why upgrades not changing the roles of the base units is necessarily a bad thing though. |
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