So my counter question to that is where is USFs weakness? Or soviets?
My personal take on the factions is that USF is the "strongest" faction in that it has the most powerful things. SOV is the actual "strongest" or the most effective because of its versatility and how it can field effective counters to everything, often without a fuel cost.
As a result, I believe that USF will try to "out-stat" you in a sense in which it will try to do whatever youre doing, except with something more powerful. The key here is to not play that game and exploit the faction's lack of tools. USF struggles with garrison clearing and cover denial (thats probably repeated a lot on this site, isnt it?), so spamming cover usually works to your favor. Incendiary nades or snipers and mortars can help you take back the cover position if you lose it while USF doesn't have anything as convenient. It's easier for you to lock USF in place than it is for USF to lock you in place, so if you ever force a lot of his units to retreat and make a forward defensive line or gradually move the line up with smaller victories, you can hope to get USF in a strangle hold.
Furthermore, USF's team weapons are, as a whole, lacking. MG42s and ost mortars combined are pretty effective against usf since the combination is stronger than a .50 and a USF mortar. Also, the non linear teching means that its possible to exploit the lack of AT guns if you get a medium tank out early enough, or win in the combined arms game if he didn't tech lieutenant.
Soviets are different in that everything can usually do everything. Nearly every soviet infantry squad has AT (AT which usually snares, at that). A lot of their AT options have anti infantry barrages. This means its harder to exploit any fundamental weakness. Durable weapon teams and snares everywhere usually mean pushing is difficult. However, well executed pushes can still break the line and can be more devastating than usual. Flanking a weapon team then deathlooping it is a good way of making a soviet weapon team into an axis weapon team. If you're not confident in executing pushes, then spamming indirect fire and smoke is the next best option. Soviets are great at turning the match into a stalemate now, so you have to be patient; whether thats biding your time for an opening, or waiting for your indirect fire to do work. The point is, you can't go into a soviet matchup hoping for a bunch of infantry squad vs infantry squad engagements or hoping to make a bunch of vehicle pushes. |
How do you play OKW without flak track? I find it underwhelming and unable to retain momentum with just infantry and support weapons. 1v1 btw
If you dont have great team weapon micro, the answer is that you simply dont go without the flak track. Okw mid game has been its weakest phase, and the nerfs have made it an actual weakness (not just a relative one). The luchs was the way to overcome this, and in its absence, that responsibility now falls on the flak track. Without it, you will be in the theoretical disadvantage throughout the midgame unless you can get extra value out of your team weapons.
The only other real option to skip aa ht without improving team weapon play is to coast off of an extremely good early game. Okw has the strongest early game, and if you can achieve absolute dominance in the first few minutes, you can hope to lock your opponent out of resources entirely and reach late game tech by the time your opponent reaches mid game tech. This would require super strong early starts and strangleholds, and a t4 rush where obers can dominate the infntry game, and raks can minimize the damage enemy light vehicles inflict until you can get out a p4. |
Hey...it's me again
1) The new usf mechanized doctrine: best faction to use against ? What teching to complement it ? Captain or LT ?
2) New fallschirmjaeger, when and how to use those over obersoldaten ? Are they worth if i alreafy teched to tier 4 ?
Mechanized is best used against okw due to their lack of early fausts. LT or CPT work, pick based on whatever youre most comfortable with or whichever faction youre facing (I prefer LT when possible).
Short answer is: don't. Don't use them over obers. Falls have small advantages like vet 0 camo, access to fausts, and negligibly lower bleed, but obers are overall just better. Something that you didnt ask about, but try not to get more than two squads of fallschirmjagers because they bleed you pretty hard; you can't use them as your core infantry. |
Hey guys,
1) Current OKW meta regarding teching ? Is mech hq still viable (when ?) ? When shoild i rather go btg to tier 4 ?
And when i go mech should i backtech for isg/healing ? Before or after schewer ?
2) Soviet tank hunter doctrine: good tank hunter build order ? I'm not sure if it is better to go double cons and tier 1 penals/sniper and then upgrade ptrs on cons or simply stick to conscripts.
Thanks.
Mech HQ works, but battlegroup is almost always preferable. Consider going mech hq when youre against usf, especially if they go lieutenant, but otherwise battlegroup into t4 is probably better.
If you do go mech, then you should look to backtech as soon as possible, the ideal time being when you have enough floating manpower (around 500 since you need 100 for the truck, 200 for the tier itself, and 100 for the medics; youll want extra manpower after that for reinforcement). That is to say, get healing up before you go schewerer or else your either unnecessarily bleeding a lot of manpower or muni.
As for your second question, either works. Honestly, going tier 2 for maxims is probably preferable. Maxims allow you to cost effectively deal with infantry while your cons (and possibly your zis) take care of the light vehicles and tanks.
|
I think you missed the part where I said barometer ie it's an indicator maybe not perfect and yes could be influenced heavily if someone chose to do so, but I do think it does highlight the Ost regardless as being weaker than the rest.
One question for you (being a top 10 player), when the tournaments go to a rubber match where the faction is chosen by the vp count holder, does axis get picked the majority of times now?
Btw, I didn't post to pick holes in the flaws of the methodology. I wanted to see if this study aligned with the sentiment i am reading that says Ost is not any good and Jackson is OP.
My issue is that its use as even a general indicator is probably being vastly overstated. If it highlights anything, its likely by happenstance. I guess the part of me that took one semester of stats (lol) is crying at how faulty all of the stats are. If people are to say that ostheer is struggling, I'd prefer it to be because of sound arguments and reliable statistics, not what I honestly consider to be the summation of completely arbitrary values.
Another issue is that your original post doesnt align with what you just posted. "Obvious factions to address," suggests there is a high degree of confidence in your results. "Good barometer" means you think its a good indicator and that the results are reliable and fairly accurate. "Completely broken" isnt the kind of statement you make based on unreliable statistics either. I just don't think the study itself supports these kinds of statements you made.
As to your question, I don't think its possible to get definite values from scc5 specifically since not all of the replays were posted. Also, in such tournament play, there are other factors to consider like what the map is. Spawn number 2 (axis spawn) is the favored spawn on most of the tournament maps. |
I totaled the streak count as of today for top 10 players for each faction across 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4. I figured the streak numbers is a better indicator of recent games played vs overall stats since I can't discern exactly when those games were played. I know its not precise but I do think it provides a good indicator in absence of having access to the time element of when games were actually played.
1 more thing, the totals weighted is a way of putting 3 allied factions on the same basis as 2 axis factions in computing a win streak ratio.
I honestly doubt that is even a decent indicator of faction balance. I (or any of the players you took stats from) could severely inflate those numbers (think 20+ streaks) by intentionally queuing during off-hours. Streaks in the top 10 are generally just an indicator of which players are noob-stomping the hardest.
Furthermore, look at the current UKF 1v1 top 10. UKF has a total streak of 99......prodi currently makes up 44/99 of that. A single fluke loss by him, and that value youre using gets lowered to 54 (around 45%). It's similar for most other factions, though not as severe.
Another word that I just thought to add, but if youre going to be doing these kinds of statistics, youre either going to need the randomness and sample sizes to ensure the results are relevant, or enough context to properly interpret and explain them (think tournament/streamed matches where the wins and losses can be analyzed and the players are known). I just don't think that measuring top 10 streaks has either of those. |
|
Game 2 of the series, the game ends because my computer crashes
....this may or may not have been the correct version (preview version or official) of minsk pocket....really hoping that doesnt cause issues... |
Aimed shot working against infantry was patched IIRC when penal flamers were removed over a year ago.
Guaranteed snipes on models. Decent chance of snipes on retreating models. |
It is inferior to those units, as it is a far better AT unit. But it will snipe models every few shots with the main gun - the coaxial is on the turret so it can negate cover without. Additionally, the vet 1 ability "aimed shot" will snipe a model (save for retreating squads).
Best use case against infantry/support weapons is to drive it right up to them (assuming no snare / AT) to negate cover and just watch the unit flail about or retreat.
On the point of and to expand on puma aimed shot, a vet 1 puma is THE best counter to a sniper you could possibly have. |
I think its best to compare the Jackson to the firefly, since they are now pretty similar and they fight the same units. To compare the Jackson to the panther or many axis tanks doesn't give you a great idea of what you are paying for as they are so different.
640 HP, 60 range 220/210 penetration far 260 penetration near for both. They cost 140 and 155 fuel respectively, so Knowing that the numbers should play out that the firefly is slightly better.
If you do the DPS considering they have such similar penetration you get
Jackson : 24.427480916DPS
FireFly :24.2424242424 DPS
They are doing approximately the same amount of damage. The jackson has 1.2 more speed and nearly twice the accelearation as the firefly
FireFly- Speed: 5.3 Accel: 1.6
Jackson-Speed: 6.5 Accel: 3
(im not an expert on how much this helps but the jacksons definitely faster).
To me it seems like you are getting a cheaper firefly that's more mobile, I think reload or penetration should be decreased slightly to compensate for this inconsistency. Mabye USF should have a better TD as it is their one lategame option I think the jackson can be the best and still be balanced, but I think this should be looked into and the numbers should be made more comparable.
As an aside firefly to me seems like its a middle of the road kind of tank this patch, not too good, not too bad.
(I'm ignoring special abilities b/c idk the best way to compare them).
Do note that this means the fireflys dps will be higher (negligibly so, still) since both tank destroyers fire off a shot immediately (they don't have to reload first). Also remember to consider vet and upgrades. |
United States
Jae for Jett
![|GB| The HS H[oo]ligan flag](/images/replay/okw_flag.jpg)
|GB| The HS H[oo]ligan
Mike
Jae for Jett
VonIvan
Relic Entertainment
