Popcap fixing goes both ways.
In one way, you have popcap abuse. This is only a factor when USF is still in the game by the late-game (rarely).
The other side of the coin is that you have a lot of garbage units that take up more than a quarter of your popcap, without you noticing. Fancy seeing how much popcap officers/ambulance/AAHT/pak howitzers/scotts take for what they give in return for their performance?
This clogs up your popcap and eats your manpower.
Bingo.
I think ambulance, major, and a pack howie is already like 20 something pop. Meanwhile, OKW can make medhq, forward position upgrade, and isgm which is basically OKW equivalent of above, for admittedly more manpower, but like 15 minutes earlier and for like 8 pop (whatever isg popcap is). |
Throwing this in after balance team calls twp a no brainer. I guess it could be free if it gets half dmg lol
Wait so you're comparing a reliable way to stun tanks at at gun range for like 45 muni (like the "OP" tulips that are getting nerfed that you at least have to aim and cost a lot) the same thing as literally vision for some muni? I don't think it should be free but your justification is a bit of a stretch. |
Thanks for the constructive (and sometimes not so constructive) feedback. The point is (at least in 2v2s) that Katyusha spam is the method of choice and I am talking about top100-top50 teams relying on that. I understand that Katy is effective on close range, because of risk-reward, but even on long range it is more than just formidable.
The problems I see are the following: as Soviet you always go T4 anyways (unless you spam M4Cs ofc), so you dont have to "detour" like with Ost or OKW, or to go for a certain doc like with Brits and USF. Furthermore, you can effectively use long range barrages (especially in comparison with the Pwerfer), since every rocket has the potential to wipe/do massive dmg. So often you can kill retreating units or units you didnt even know that were there with the scatter. Plus, they are super effective to easily get rid of any OKW truck from a safe distance, especially when paired with 120mm. Thats what you see every game in 2v2s. Penals, 120mm, Katyushas and T34/SU86 accordingly.
I mean you have a good point, but won't 1 diving tank solve all your problems, especially if you're OKW? You do need to remember that katyushas and pwerfers get 1 shotted, so if they spam a lot and only have a couple tanks, a panther should be able to kill multiple katyushas and still escape, especialy if it has blitz and armored skirts. |
And in return I'm pointing out that to claim the bofors can do any of those things in any meaningful way is complete bollocks.
Also it still can't move.
Infantry can move AND shoot stuff op plz nerf kappa. |
Dispite the fact that brits mortar is alone and no covered by blob inf / MG / AEC / Bofor (for the lulz), you argument is valid ...
Well yeah, anything is invincible if you cover it with an entire army. But that means that they can't go anywhere else, so you should be outcapping. |
Once and for all.
Nerf WFA + UKF repairs.
Leave OST / SU like they are.
We don't need 5% health Tiger to be ready again in 20 secs. Losing health should be punishing.
+1 |
Then you haven´t understood my point one bit. That is what we are dealing with. People with an entire team staying right inside their own goal and getting away with it, more often than they should. There are EASY counters to everyone of those cheesy strategies you named, which are roughly as easy as the build itself(like an Ostwind against infantry spam). The problem with emplacements is that it takes 50 minutes to win a game, while your skill has to be significantly higher, to constantly dodge the bombardment. The counters to emplacements are pretty hard to execute, while the enemy has to do nothing. Even HelpingHans admitted this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkVxsYNab0s&list=PLwkm_w8wXFhjEX14k1f3Z2EWgYuIFi-Cf&index=13 I mean, come on man. Notice how complex and difficult his counter-strategy is, as opposed to just building something.
I see your point. The thing is, my point is that you can't call for balance on this issue because it's not a good strategy. It doesn't work. Sure, you take a lot more effort to counter his simcity, but making a simcity is still not going to win you many games. It's pretty much exactly like blobbing. There may be some contributing factors, but the bottom line is that you're calling for balance over something that is annoying, not overpowered. |
All these non doctrinal "counters" don´t work if the cancer pit is placed behind a shot blocker. And even if you reach emplacements with flame weapons, a Bofors will kill off any infantry or flame HT faster than the other way around. Usually the Bofors will survife the flames while braced and then the funny situation occurs that the Bofors unbraces and finishes off the supposed hard counters within seconds. Moving Paks into mortar pit range also means dead Paks. The same goes for regular mortars.
Long story short: Ostheer has no cost effective non-doctrinal counter to emplacements. The micro burden is on the Ostheer players side. While the Brit presses one button, the Ostheer player must apply constant pressure with units that are fragile to the emplacements. If the Brit manages to stall the attack the manpower bleed will cripple the Ostheer player while the Brit just needs to repair.
Shot blockers? Are you kidding me? Get a flame ht and attack ground over the shot blocker. Mortars and grenades still work too. If your problem is with the bofors, shell it till it braces, then attack it in a hit and run. Make sure you know when it will come off of brace, and pull any vehicles and/or retreat before then. Simcities are totally counterable and once you demolish them you've pretty much won. |
I would prefer changing so modifiers to specific units so that ostheer has a non doctrinal answer to them. As long as they have a counter they don't really need a change.
They have plenty of counters, even nondoctrinally. They have flamethrowers and flame ht if the bofors braces, they have mortars (the best counter) they have paks of the pit is occupied or braced, and later on they have the brummbar and pwerfer, which absolutely wreck sim cities. Doctrinally, they've got the mortar ht, the puma, lefh later on (another sterling counter), and the elefant, as well as offmaps. Or you could always just force a brace on the bofors and rush in with a bunch of grenadiers and maybe a flamethrower. That works too. |
If neither team did anything, would it not technically be a draw? Unless I understood you wrong. The difference is that 4 Mortars can be easily pushed off the field. Double Mortar Pit supported by Bofors simply can´t be. Not until you get tanks and even then, all he needs is an AT gun, because bringing infantry support to a proximity of Bofors is suicide. I also haven´t said they lose all the time. Sure, I beat them, but they must have beaten somebody on the way, right? It´s not like it is a losing strategy automatically, only if they are noobs(which they usually are, but not always). If they actually know how to control their infantry and tanks, you are in deep trouble. The scale on which something is happening matters, not just the principle. People don´t build 4 mortars, because it is a stupid strategy and doesn´t work. However, people do build emplacements pretty often, because it actually works quite well. I mean, if he keeps building them, it must have worked out for him in the past hasn´t it?
I was saying 1 team can just sit back and do nothing while the other team goes and scores on them eventually. So the other dude beat some noobs that barely understand the game like himself, big deal. I used to win by spamming sturmpioneers or conscripts with guards lol. That doesn't mean it's a viable strategy. Hell, you probably could have gotten away with four mortars seeing as he became had over 1200 manpower in a concentrated sim city. Emplacement spam really does not work well at any higher level of play though. They're just too vulnerable due to not being able to move. |
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