Profile of Kurfürst

Stormtrooper changes are poorly thought out and poorly implemented. The only good thing is that at least in another, otherwise reasonable well thought out commander nobody seems to have used.

I doubt I will use these guys, giving them MP 40s are not suited for low model count squad, which would have trouble getting close enough, that also looses its only durability buff, received accuracy at the range the MP40s work well.

At this MP cost and bleed, its very uneconomical to spawn these guys anywhere behind the line.

It also lacks character (basically copycat UKF Commandoes / poor man's Shocks) and abilities to work with such a unit. The live version is basically buffed Grens at almost 50% extra price. The current version is either buffed Pios or just basically Assault Grenadier with cloak. Neither is good.

3 Kar98s and 1 Stg on spawn would be a better option for both spawns and normal combat use, with the old upgrade for 4 Stgs / or 1 Shreck costing 75 Muni.

The unit would have sufficient CQB firepower to spawn behind enemy lines, and would differentiate from both Grens and Panzergrens in use when used normally afterward. Essentially it would create a very versatile unit that would be still too expensive to spam, but could serve a useful to purpose in the very specialized OST line of a useful 'generalist' infantry that can specialize via upgrade.

Easy Eight price drop is unwarranted. The thing literally sh*ts on the Pz IV (either variant) and is now costing practically the same...?

Actually I am was playing COH when you probably still wore diepers. And yes, the original IS-2 was a nuke or miss, but that is not what I am looking for nor that is what the suggested changes intend. They intend higher alpha damage (more impact in tank vs tank), circa the same anti infantry damage.

Currently the issue with literally all heavies is that that they are more or less just damage sponges, instead of firepower concentration. More impact is needed. More character. Between all the 'balancing', COH is looking more and more like a Starcraft game, where 'balance' is achieved by always consistent results. Might as well do away with hit chance and armor, but then it is not COH.

Higher alpha would be preferable for heavy tanks that are limited to 1, slow, and work in practice as TD magnets instead of a steady stream of DPS. Simply buffing their RoF is a lazy solution, as squad wipes can be avoided by properly adjusting the near and mid AoE. If consistent AI performance is required, adjustment of scatter is needed.

This is how it worked in Coh 1 and it worked well.

4 Kars vs 4 Stgs are pretty much the same DPS wise at long range, Stgs being a touch weaker, but at those ranges DPS is so low they are plinking at targets anyway. Hence PzGrens and Grens (w/o upgrade) are about equal at long range, but PzGrens are uneconomical for the purpose.

Stgs OTOH have increasing DPS as range drops hence they are much better answer vs. threats like PPsh Cons, Shocks etc.

Commandoes Stens are IIRC totally OP at close range, MP 40s are not. They are meh at best, and solid vs. engineer units. IF you can get close. Not so much a problem with 200 MP units, more of a problem with 340 MP units.

But then they still vastly underperform stock, and become more expensive pgrens. In fact, they would probably be worse than grens since you're mixing a mid range stg with long range rifles. Anyway, my understanding of the changes was that we were attempting to:

1. Make them not useless without an upgrade
2. Reduce overlap with other units (grenadiers and panzergrenadiers)

I don't think your proposal helps with either of these and I don't think it even really changes them.

It actually does. Grens are long range specialist, while PzGrens are mostly short range specialist.

My proposed Stormtroopers would be a mix of the two, with more resilence and more versatality. Which is exactly what is useful for a Wehr elite unit, as they have only specialists. Specialist tanks, specialist infantry, specialist support weapons. They do not need another super short range infantry specialist, especially as they do have the same thing already as stock (Pios with Flame upgrades) or as an upgraded Doc option (Assgrens).

They need versatile, an elite generalist infantry, they could serve as a glue holding squishy Wehr infantry units and the frontline together. As such, they can either receive offensive upgrades (3x Stg) or defensive oriented upgrades (1xSchreck). And at this price range, they cannot be sustainable spammed.

As an infiltrator unit, without at least some automatic weapons, they are also utterly useless. That's the main weakness of their original design as 4 Kar98 are meh for unit that pays 40 MP extra to appear behind the enemy and... shot them with the very same weapons Grens do from the front.
Adding a Stg instead of one of the Kar98s would fix that without becoming to powerful to handle.

Wirecutters would be cool, but also nearly useless; likely more useless than ostheer first aid kits.

Smoke grenades might be the other option, fitting for their offensive role, but PzGrens already have that and it would be probably very OP with their assault ability.

Finally, people keep saying the current iteration of storms overlaps with assault grenadiers, but I fail to understand how that's the case. They don't slot into builds the same way, and you're likely to use them entirely differently. Assault grenadiers are used either as a complete substitute for grenadiers to skip tech or as a one-off in the early game. You build them in the first minute or not at all. Storms are called in when your build and core infantry base is already established. This means that assault grenadiers have to frontline since theyll probably be accounting for a large part of your core fighting force, while storms don't have to shoehorned into situations since you already have grens to do the work. Beyond that, assault grenadiers aren't the ambushers that storms are - live or preview.

MP40s with the worst weapon profile make absolutely NO sense on a squashy 4 men squad that would now also had to close in first, then get into less than 10 range to be effective at which point they also loose all their RAs and become essentially Pioneers but 60% more expensive. Why would I EVER want to do that? Pios do the same job just much cheaper.

Ambush, which basically adds accuracy for the first few seconds also does not work at all with a unit that cannot do damage past range 10 (as in MP 40).

Changing them to MP 40s was a terrible idea. Instead of overlapping with PzGrens, they now overlap with/basically the same as Assault Grenadiers and to a lesser extent, Pios. And they used to be just terribly expensive, slightly buffed Grenadiers with ambush camouflage built in.

I like the idea that they are added to an underused doctrine, thing is I would like to use them more often, but they are so few doctrines as it is.

Clearly the unit needs to be more unique for that price. They are very expensive for what they do - basically Grenas with slightly lower RA with an +50% price tag.


Going with the results of the poll, lets keep their Kar 98s, but only 3 of them and the 4th guy gets a Stg44. This would give them a character (they are basically politcally correct W-SS infantry which was known to have received earlier/more Stgs) in their intended assault role, it would make sense for infiltration (since Bundled Grenades are both nerfed and on cooldown when spawned). A single Stg would buff them in close range but otherwise would not be very OP or having the DPS potential of Pzgrens.

Keep the Stg upgrade, but since it adds only 3 Stgs, reduce the Muni cost to a more affordable and sensible 75.

The wire cutter ability also makes sense and would fit into the unit's character well.


This would give you a versatile semi elite unit suitable for infiltration, with a medicum of close combat, with a nice historical touch.