It's simple, we nerf the OKW.
At least it's simple SeemsGood |
Because they don't require any min 0 tech investment at all. Fuelwise, all factions are where they need to be.
How come someone be so dense XD
OKW still starts with a SP. Not a Kubel, not a Volks. SP scaling can be changed but that's not the issue here.
If you remove 40-60mp early on (you would net equal tech cost after 2 trucks and been ahead on the 3rd) you'll be losing what, 10s/15s top of delayed production ?
The first SP should be as important as the MG42 is for OH.
So with the difference of about 20 manpower on the sturm starter, and say 80 MP for the SwS.... nope i give up. No clue what the plan is. |
I'm not sure why you keep talking about replacing SP with Volks when i never mention it. Which to my surprise, you keep ignoring my point over the last 2 messages.
OKW was given an extra 100mp when they had their rework and they had to pay for their trucks. Performance and cost of SP were slightly buffed across different patches and currently, i don't see the faction having struggle with cheese strats (as most of them had been patched out).
If the changelog is correct this is the opening for all factions:
SU: CE + 350mp
OH: Pio + 420mp (+60 in order to help basically against USF)
USF: RET + 400mp
OKW: SP + 340mp (+100 after rework to account for SwS)
UKF: IS + 340mp (+50 after release cause they suck hard on 1v1)
The volks starter was suggested by someone else but is far more likely to occur than a kubel starter. Which would make it the suitable assumption if they were looking to change it. So what you're suggesting is to nerf SPs to around other engineer levels, putting the excess manpower into the 1st SwS (or all?) to compensate and then nerfing stats accordingly? I mean sure but OKW would then struggle for those first 5 minutes since their manpower is essentially taken away till tech, and the only thing keeping OKW afloat as a faction in 1v1 currently is their early game pressure coupled with light vehicles. Their support teams are too mediocre and lategame armor lacks AI heavily. But yes this could potentially fix things for the OKW opener, given they were given a very sizeable lategame buff. Otherwise the faction would just get rolled at all points of the game. |
Thread: US BARS25 Aug 2018, 12:48 PM
Against a retreating target: Rifles are better not moving; moving while using a rifle is suboptimal. Moving while using smgs/bars is better; standing still while using them is suboptimal.
Who or what decides this? M1 garand moving accuracy is 0.6 and given that you get around 2x time of shooting compared to not moving it gives you more on target shots and accurate shots overall with this rifle. G43 at 0.8 is even worse. Tommies at 0.35 you never chase with because you have no chance to hit.
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Thread: US BARS25 Aug 2018, 03:52 AM
The more or less accepted answer is to always chase with smgs/bars/garands and to never chase wirh rifles. Theres no decision really. For each weapon, one choice is basically strictly better than the other.
I'd say that answer is who you ask. I know top players who don't even remotely know stats of the game or outcomes, and just know the game through experience and win through strong micro. On the other side you have players who know a ton of stats that run the game and can therefore make the best decisions of situations, and have decent micro that allow them to be top players.
Different ways of being successful, all depends on who you ask. |
Is it any different from any other engineer unit? I don't mind any other type of buffs/changes which make 2x Sturm more desirable or better through the mid to late game as it remains a 300mp unit.
This is why i said that if the first 3-5 mins are a bit problematic, why not shift that power around. Instead of starting with a 340mp and a 300mp unit, reduce that to 280/300 and make SwS mp cost go from 100 to 80-70
I'd say it matters although probably not enough to actually stop a change if it was wanted. Say OKW starts with volks, and ignoring issues against other factions with that, you're now required to purchase the sturmpioneer. Which means that its vet comes later, which makes that excess manpower that you're required to sink for into combat stats on an engineer is essentially going to more of a waste because SPs will be outclassed that much sooner.
Other engineers can either get a flamer, which allows for faster vet accumulation and damage output even against upgraded squads, but they're also cheaper and require less popcap. Essentially, you don't have to sink the resources for other factions engineers if you don't want too, but for OKW it comes with that build cost which may or may not be used.
There are workarounds for this like changing the SPs vet a bit, or the unit even moreso. |
Thread: US BARS24 Aug 2018, 15:42 PM
Do you really feel the BARs' moving performance is an issue though? Considering volks, for example, lose ~60% of their DPS while moving, a 50% DPS loss for moving bars isn't all that absurd. Most weapons that are intended to have good moving performance see a 40-50% DPS loss.
As for G43s, I'd argue that the tactical decision isn't in how you use G43s, but in deciding which upgrade to get. It's a choice between moving performance/close range damage and long range damage. Nerfing the moving performance of G43s to the same level as most other weapons waters down that choice to close range damage or long range damage. In my opinion, that actually removes a tactical decision and makes the dynamic between those weapon upgrades less interesting.
Yes it's an issue. When you chase with StG volks or Kar98 grens you have to make the decision to either chase and get more shots in or remain stationary to maximize accuracy. With BARs and G43s there is no decision, you chase everytime because you sacrifice basically nothing.
When you say "40%-50% DPS loss" are you factoring in the rest of the squad? Or just the 2 models with BARs? Because you would see a 40% DPS loss from rifles with 2x BARs if they were still 5 man.
Yes I like the tactical decision of G43s vs the LMG42, but it doesn't make the moving accuracy being nonexistant ok. G43s are a close range weapon and the LMG42 is the opposite. That should be enough justification to select one over the other. |
Remove/reduce/pass around the extra 100mp they start with. The SwS is a good unit/tech requirement you could reduce mp wise so you would effectively keep the same overall teching cost.
About the SP as a unit, they had been hugely buff in the latest patches but outside of them getting a 5th man or weapon upgrade, they are not gonna be an infantry unit which can compete with main line upgraded infantry. On top of having plenty of roles.
I mean, this were the last year December changes:
While these may be "buffs", the only ones you ever notice is the reinforce time. It's rare to build a 2nd sturmpioneer unless its a heavy urban map, or you've lost yours. Vet 4 and 5 combat bonuses received nerfs and those are hardly obtainable anyways. Pop reduction is nice but when literally every other unit in the arsenal received a popcap increase it didn't matter. OKW now suffers heavily from its popcap lategame. The panzerschreck is just awful anyways. Paying 70 munis for potentially a 120 damage source and hampers the units AI which gets outmatched by midgame anyways unless you hit vet 2, which you then get about 2-5 extra minutes of effectivness until weapon upgrades put the unit on the sidelines completely. Not to mention lack of sweepers.
The unit simply is asked to do too much.
As said previously you'd need to rework the faction or the unit entirely because if you start with a volks OKW would get destroyed by UKF. That matchup currently can go either way, but it would swing to UKF entirely from a volks starter. Not to mention you'd then later have to build the SP which would make their vet even more unobtainable. |
Thread: US BARS24 Aug 2018, 01:20 AM
I don't believe you can "balance" them, because there are too many factors to consider. Infantry DPS w/o upgrades, 5 different factions, supposidly factions being good at different parts of the game (which is horrible idea since it has never worked). What I'd do is remove brain dead modifiers from weapons. 0.7 moving accuracy modifier from the BAR, 0.8 from the G43s, etc. The more tactical decisions you need to make the more you leeway you have to make balance changes. |
Thread: US BARS24 Aug 2018, 00:55 AM
It's a great pickup item. One of the best in the game. IMO the biggest issue with it is 2x equip and the 0.7 moving accuracy modifier. |
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