I think nobody is reading this thread anymore, but I agree that swapping tech around is a simple and potentially viable way of fixing the problem. I think there's only one way that really makes sense:
Base tier
- Rifles
- Rear Echelon
- M20 (unlocks on getting LT/CPT)
LT Tier
CPT Tier
Okay, so why is this good?
- Each tier has one each of indirect, suppression, and AT
- Fuel cost items (AAHT / Stuart) are not in the same tier
- MG / AT gun combo is avoided (would be OP and allow to rush Major)
- LT has static suppression/mobile AT, while CPT has mobile suppression/static AT
- I feel they are balanced. Maybe MG/Stuart > AAHT/ATGun, but then Pak Howie > Mortar
- M20 Utility vehicle always available (for the... utility)
- USF early game has to use skill (flanking, RE smoke)
That's all I got. I'm going to bed so let me know how dumb I am and I'll check it in the morning  |
Oh, I missed the word "lights" in your post, but I also didn't know the bonus still applied to light vehicles. Thanks a lot for correcting me!  |
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Yeah. Always thought it was a bit strange that the pintle-MGs were better at AA than dedicated AA units. Even though AA was made less random in general a few patches ago, if you nerf pintles & buff dedicated AA then you have to actually make a decision to go with an AA unit or not - adds another strategic layer to the game. Every faction has dedicated AA units available already, whereas the number of pintle-MGs you get depends strongly on the faction.
As for the Ostwind in particular, I agree that it's really not in a very useful position at the moment. I would say a small drop in fuel price would make sense.
Edit: For example -5 fuel; as we know from the recent patch we have to be very careful with large, sweeping balance changes at this stage. |
Good question as it is a part of the game where UKF can lose field presence. Some good points from ShadowLink but let me add a few.
1. I really have trouble when going from tier one to tier two, since I don't know what to get first.
First off, don't be afraid to have 4 or even 5 units in T1 before teching. Then, I agree that UKF T2 lacks any obvious choice, but just make sure not to float and get something and use it (e.g. Sappers can mine or cap; Sniper is very good at bleeding OKW - just keep him behind other units so you can see light vehicles coming and retreat; an AT gun plus piats can keep away enemy armour, and even 2 AT guns held back a bit can be an effective and powerful surprise). Lastly remember that caches are always an option to speed up T3!
2. I feel like I am not allowed to make a single mistake. Losing a unit or just a position with good cover just feels so painful. I feel like it's much harder to comeback than with any other factions.
This is unfortunately just the truth at the moment. E.g. OKW can play really badly, lose 2~3 Volks and still be totally fine, but as UKF is already on the back foot in the current patch, a single mistake can often lose you the game. As long as you can accept that, they are still fun and challenging to play
Many people including myself do well with commandos in the midgame. Their stens are very strong in CQC and can move while cloaked on cover.
Definitely agree with this. Commandos can really turn the tide as soon as you hit 3CP. Just remember to have some plan for AT.
AEC is good light vehicle counter, but I wouldn't get it premptivly. If you're against OKW and you find his mech truck just be ready to start teching it.
This I actually disagree a bit, I find AEC is almost always useful and for me almost necessary maintain tempo as Brits. It might not feel powerful against infantry, but if you can keep it out of faust range, it will slowly but surely bleed your opponent. Plus, it hard-counters the inevitable scout car or luchs, so good to have around (though will lose to Puma or well-microed double 222, so keep one more AT source for backup). Literally the only case I don't get one is when I'm fast-teching straight to Centaur.
The UKF AT gun is fantastic vs lights since it has a +50% accuracy modifier against them, which means it almost never misses.
Unfortunately this was nerfed and removed in one of the recent patches (along with everything else the British roster). Well-microed AT guns are still important for Brits, but for now, just hang on until the next patch comes with UKF snare and start blowing up those tanks again |
Hello, yes, your points are very valid 
At higher level it presents a big, easy target for opponents.
I actually really like it however, it allows for setting up a quick FRP, spamming commandos, the territory cap ability is actually quite useful as UKF doesn't have a lot of capping units and relies on it's light vehicles in the early game.
The air support and crocodile were already nerfed into uselessness however, so i wouldn't recommend spending actual money on it (in-game credits maybe) because they may or may not revert those nerfs later |
ST44 are badly designed (and SVT also). The main problem with the ST44 VGs is that their performance is too good at all ranges and thus limits the benefits of relative positioning.
In addition anti garrison weapon should be limited to specialized units and not mainline infantry.
On the other hand their vet bonuses are inferior to other mainline infantry.
Findeed and Vipper are right (even if the OP may be ranting, he has a point). I've said it many times recently, I made a thread about this a year ago, and I said the same thing when the StG upgrade was introduced. You simply can't have a baseline inf unit that
a) 250mp 5-men squad (spammable, caps the map faster than any other army)
b) Has snare
c) Builds sandbags (so can win most defensive fights)
d) All-ranges StG upgrade (cheap, non-droppable, no tactical positioning or movement required)
e) Throws flame nade (automatically beats garrisons, known to YOLO MGs from the front)
It's stupid, it makes OKW the most boring army to play both as and against at the moment, at just about any skill level. Just change literally 1 of the above 5 things, and you'll probably get a fun and balanced matchup. |
REs can build anti-vehicle mines, this is a snare itself if i'm not wrong. For the cost of 10 munitions each, a USF player can cover the whole map with those
AFAIK no, unless they stack or something that wasn't in the patch notes, it's not a snare - it just slows the enemy vehicles down for 8 seconds.
I posted some tips here for ya: https://www.coh2.org/replay/83397/wrecked-by-usf-re-blobs/page/1#post_id703992
This is all very good advice especially attack-move and using cover on grens; RE can only really hurt you up close due to their awful accuracy, so if you micro well with your grens you can usually beat them
You played very well for only your 6th game as Wehrmacht. Your opponent however was also very skilled and very experienced. RE spam is a very risky tactic and relies a lot on quick map control early on to get enough munitons to properly equip the REs. If they do not get their upgrades quick enough they will get steam rolled by much better Axis infantry.
Nice complimenting yourself ;D
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The RE light vehicle mines are actually a neat idea I think, I haven't got too much use out of them yet but I have a suspicion that people just aren't using the RE mines properly yet. Let's be honest, the standard 30-muni mines can really suck when they take out 1~2 Pioneers or Rear Echelon troops, leaving the way open for vehicles to drive in, these mines are at least dedicated anti-vehicle.
I do agree that the m20 is overpriced and I think to solution should simply be to increase the fuel cost to around 45 and have the skirts preinstalled.
The only other problem with USF is obviously teching. Switching the AAHT and Stuart's position can easily rectify that problem. AT and suppression in both tech tiers.
How is the solution to something being overpriced to increase the price?  Would rather just lower the manpower to something more sensible like 220 ~ 240, as many people have said, then it will get used a bit more.
Also agree however that we should still seriously think about switching about the tech - at the moment LT tier locks you in to one of the two airborne commanders (with droppable AT guns), which limits the range of play styles available. |
ever tried the RoyalHants bren blob strat or watch a helpinghans replay? may help more than cry in forum
No, I obviously made it to rank 50 by not actually playing the game or trying any strategies at all, but purely by crying into my monitor until my opponent felt sorry for me and surrendered, but thanks as usual for your kind and constructive feedback to the thread
My opinion brits are UP, but all that is needed is small ajustments. DBP and the spring patch removed any crutches they had like cover bonus, UC, bren, AEC aim shot or centaur cheese. But they needed their holes patched up if the crutches were going to be taken away.
1. Make british armour somewhat decent, improving cromwell AI to match sherman or P4, up price as well by 20f. At the moment it is like the old t-24/76... cheap but meh compared to other mediums. Put firefly down to same popcap as Jagdpanzer, it already has lowest and slowest DPS in the game unless you have 200+muni just sitting around for tulips. Also give comet same range as panther. comet was overnerfed terribly and two years on still has crappy vet. Range to match panther and 30% pen at vet 3 would fix this tank.
2. make the current snare change official, really really needs to get added to the game. It's far too easy to dive brits with current Luch and Puma meta. Axis almost always will pick up a wipe or UC destroy here unless you play super conservatively with 6pdr+AEC and give him map control.
3. mobile mortar team and possibly lock mortarpit to a doctrine or something, lategame the biggest issue is just having zero inderect to counter an axis command tank cancer blob (tanks, MG or two and sniper all buffed by command P4 or given free map hax by bonus damage command panther). Good luck trying to dislodge this with tommy arty grenade or mortar pit lol
Yeah I think this is pretty spot-on.
Indeed while UKF have had every good unit they ever had nerfed into the ground, it actually made sense because there was a lot of cheese there, and I agree that a lot of it had to go. But then without their unique strengths, not only are Brits just an OST army with 1/4 of the units taken out, but the remaining units are actually the same or worse than their OST counterpart (worse sniper, worse MG, late engineers with less utility, suicide mortar pit, no flamer, no snare, no late game tanks anymore...).
The Wehraboos can call me out for whining if they like, but I play all armies and I just don't find myself having fun on either side of this match-up, and would like to see all armies be viable again. I also totally agree that all we want are small counter-adjustments, though I kind of see two options there.
1. Give UKF a close-range snare and mobile mortar (as suggested).
2. Just revert some of the previous nerfs, e.g. to IS, AT gun, and sniper snare.
Honestly I don't like the way that every army is slowly turning into a clone of each other, so personally I would pick the second one purely for flavour. |
The snare will definitely bring them back a bit
Then, the bren carrier nerf should be partially reverted alongside with the cappin speed of IS and it will be fine
Yeah sounds about right to me - I'd rather we had small changes like this and see how things work out, than all the huge unjustified nerfs from the last patch. On the other hand I'd rather un-nerf the DPS itself rather than the capping speed - Tommies were quad-nerfed (capping speed, DPS, cover bonus, and bren nerf) so now they're almost equal to grens and lose to Volks in most situations (yet are more expensive and lack the support tools...).
I think right now people are preparing for the metagame to get patched out so you might be encountering people mixing up their strats that may be throwing off your game.
At the same time, if you're using similar strategies that you had been using in previous patches, you're not only dealing with units that have been nerfed, but against players who have likely long learned out to counter those old tactics.
That said, I have barely kept up with even watching CoH2 matches this last patch. And even those games have been on custom maps in development. I'm only referencing a general pattern in competitive online gaming.
This is a very good point and probably true I don't think I even really played to the meta before, but for example I relied a lot on AT Gun micro, and now they've been nerfed I have no idea how to counter strats like Panzer Tactician...
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