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Thread: WBP Merged changelog (v1.0 to newest)22 Feb 2017, 13:39 PM Jump back to quoted post22 Feb 2017, 13:08 PMMr.Smith The way I use PIATs, which is incidentally the same way that Captain Price uses them, PIATs have been heavily nerfed to a balanced state. 1 PIAT in the live version is considerably stronger than 1 panzerschreck. Your main argument is: - The only way to find out what is the state of balance is high level play - The only such available 1v1 top-level play is KoTH (OK so far) If its only KoTH results that matter (which is your main argument), and KoTH results were OK, we wouldn't have to change anything with respect to PIATs (and Brits). Am I right? Well I don't really agree that the only way to find the state of balance is high level play. Koth gives good indication and that about it. Jump back to quoted post22 Feb 2017, 13:08 PMMr.Smith However, why should we change PIATs at all, since they had 0 effect on the results of the tourney. it makes no sense to me to throw 3 months of testing down the toilet. This is because, in my head, there is a very clear logical disconnect between: - PIAT changes - the KoTH tournament Since Piat where not used in Koth tournament (or not extensively)one can not evaluate their impact from data in there. Jump back to quoted post22 Feb 2017, 13:08 PMMr.Smith We acknowledge that Brits are overperforming in the KoTH tournament. This is 99% because of two very specific doctrines that go above and beyond in the lategame. If we make adjustments that are completely disconnected from our main objectives (diversity & balance), we're only going to shoot ourselves in the foot. What happens when Comet/etc enter scope? Do we wait another X months until PIATs re-enter scope? What happens in between? What if the survey format prevents the community from choosing actionable items? Do we really want to stay forever in the days of the good-ol-ESL when there was literally at most 1 viable strategy per faction? Imo you probably need more data on the performance of Piats before going ahead with change. My point here is that imo the change at this point will cause more problem than it will solve. I might be wrong but that can only be verified from more testing. And the question should be what if you now end up with UKF dominance for the next 6 months (and if the Piat change contributes to that)? In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: WBP Merged changelog (v1.0 to newest)22 Feb 2017, 13:03 PM Jump back to quoted post22 Feb 2017, 12:59 PMJohnSmith No, I clearly said that it is not a nerf/buff. Don't make me say things I didn't say. I sent you a PM to explain you that for you to understand. I will not read it. Does Piat work better vs mediums and worse against super/heavies? In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: WBP Merged changelog (v1.0 to newest)22 Feb 2017, 12:12 PM Jump back to quoted post22 Feb 2017, 11:48 AMJohnSmith They were redesigned to remove the disparity in the early and late game AT capability between good and not-so-good players. They were not buffed, and not nerfed. They work great now, and feel less threatening against top100 players in WBP late game. Great redesign. KOTH will have more diversity in the next round too, thanks to Storm's changed rules. So they in other words since the disparity has lessen they are buffed in early game and nerfed in late game. And since the KOTH has demonstrated that UKF are OP in late game the change is an overall buff to the UKF faction because it buff their early mid game where they suffer. I never claimed that it was bad change, my point is that it is bad timing. UKF need to redesigned/overhauled as faction and then change the Piats. Piat change at this point will probably cause more issues than it will solve. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: WBP Merged changelog (v1.0 to newest)22 Feb 2017, 11:43 AM Jump back to quoted post22 Feb 2017, 11:40 AMJohnSmith Good players in live are able to use Piats to counter even faster moving vehicles using ground attack. The change mostly removes the gap between this need for micro. So in your opinion are Piats buffed in WBP or are they nerfed? In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: WBP Merged changelog (v1.0 to newest)22 Feb 2017, 11:39 AM Jump back to quoted post22 Feb 2017, 10:19 AMMr.Smith Unless I missed something, nobody even touched piats in the tourney. Piat changes are first, and foremnost a big lategame nerf. Also it doesn't make sense to linit atrategic diversity of a faction when it is clear that this is thr case if a few doctrines overperforming. We shouodnt be balancing ukf around landmattress/arty cover. It shoulf be the other way around. Piats in live are mostly counter to Supper heavy while WBP they are counters to all armor. That imo is buff to UKF and imo UKF do not need a buff until they are fixed. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: WBP Merged changelog (v1.0 to newest)22 Feb 2017, 08:50 AM Since the KOTH indicates that UKF are very strong my suggestion would be not to go ahead with the Piat changes until UKF receive some nerfs. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: WBP Merged changelog (v1.0 to newest)21 Feb 2017, 15:01 PM Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2017, 14:43 PMZombiFrancis Penals in and of themselves aren't really OP. The problem was how they were timed with Guards. The PTRS on Guards made it so Ostheer especially couldn't even have a chance to have an edge until way too late in the game. ... They actually are the are an elite infantry that arrives before minute. They are more durable and have more DPS than riflemen who are op themselves by design (and should be toned down not that they have a mortar available) As was clearly demonstrate by Shocks and Guards at CP 1 elite infantry need to be delayed (or be available to all factions). In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Volksgrenadier's Panzerfaust range20 Feb 2017, 15:12 PM Jump back to quoted post20 Feb 2017, 14:31 PMMr.Smith It's the range of the ability that determines the range of the snare, not the range of the weapon. I don't think that the range of the weapon, in anyway, affects the maximum range of the ability. I am almost certain that Ostheer Pfaust will not fire if the vehicle moves out of range 30 before the animation is done the same way rifle AT grenades will not fire if the vehicle moves closer to minimum range. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Your wishes for the Panther20 Feb 2017, 13:51 PM Jump back to quoted post20 Feb 2017, 13:44 PMEsxile Why are you comparing vetted Su/M36 vs non-vetted Panther? Non-vetted TD having between 60 and 70% chance to penetrate is a good value. 1) I also compared non vetted with non vetted 2) Allied TD vet way faster then Panther because: Lower XP value More DPs More range Earlier arrival 3) The values is provided are for range 60 outside the range of the Panther if you go 50 thing are even worse. 4) The panther that is supposed to counter heavy allied armor has at range 50 220/375=53% chance of penetrating a IS-2 so according to you it has bad value for TD. You presented the issue as an issue vs UKF I am simply pointing out that the Panther has issue against any faction. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Your wishes for the Panther20 Feb 2017, 13:39 PM Jump back to quoted post20 Feb 2017, 12:44 PMEsxile If you start making the panther easier to access or better, Sov and USF will pay the high price. We all remember how games were unbalance late game when the panther was too good. Today it is unbalance but because of the Brit. So my opinion is to bring Brit into the same design as other factions. Maybe give them an easy-to-use stock snare and reduce its AT firepower. Actually no. Allied TD have been buffed so much (to deal with the KT) that axis armor advantage is quite pointless. Axis tanks would be far better of if they had less far less armor and where cheaper or had more DPS. Su-85 chance to hit Panther at range 60 4X24=96% Su-85 chance to penetrate frontally Panther range 60 220/320=67% Su-85 vet 2 chance to penetrate frontally Panther range 60 220X1.3/320=90% M36 chance to hit Panther at range 60 3.5X24=84% M36 chance to penetrate frontally Panther range 60 200/320=63% M36 AP chance to penetrate frontally Panther range 60 240/320=75% In: COH2 Balance