I never said that CoH2 should copy the entire faction design. I just said there's a couple of design choices for vCoH Brits that made more sense, that could be used to improve the CoH2 faction.
I see no reason not to copy the good stuff.
Static mortar is still static so I don't think it's part of the good design choices. |
I think making the CoH2 Brits more like CoH Brits might help them out.
Change the double mortar pit to a single mortar pit for half the price so they can get indirect fire in key positions, while it wouldn't be as punishing to lose them (vCoH mortar pit).
Give the AEC an AI profile instead. It shouldn't be as effective as a T-70 but it can come out earlier (vCoH Stuart). It can still deal some damage to light vehicles.
Allow sappers to build MG bunkers to help defend territory or counter blobs a bit.
Buff the Firefly a bit and lose the stun on Tullip rockets.
Oh yeah, make them like the Army people are crying needs a redesign in the original game.
The British were fucked because of their over reliance of emplacements, and lack of mobile team weapons, the COH2 Brits improve upon that in the sense that emplacements are not something you need anymore to survive as much while in CoH it sort of was, you had no mobile indirect fire or AT weapon, the Brits in CoH2 at least have the base 25 pounders, and even with the Vickers MMG upgrade for the Bren carrier I've rarely had it survive more than mid game. Plus I'd argue that should have also got tank traps from the royal engineers.
I could go into more detail on what's wrong with the CoH Brits and how to fix them but just take it from an experienced CoH veteran that has played since 2006, and mostly the Opposing Fronts Armies because I was sick and tired of the original 2 until they released. |
I think every factions needs non-doctrinal:
Snare
Mobile mortar
Rocket arty
The last one was only really apparent in team games when playing with a USF ally and neither of us picked landmattress/calliope commanders. Every faction needs an area of denial tool to combat blobs.
Basic mainline infantry, support weapons such as MGs, mobile indirect fire, proper AT gun, medium tank as well as a TD and so forth.
All in all tho the Brits do have Anvil that gives the base howitzers the shrapnel rounds while not particularly effective still sort of fulfill the purpose of area denial, and there's really nothing like that which the USF can be given by default sadly, we just didn't have much rocket arty during the war, I'd even go as far as to say that the Calliope was born out of the idea of mounting a nebelwerfer type weapon on an armored chassis more than anything else really, while the Brits went the cheaper route by directly copying it with the land matress. |
What if Pyrotechnics also gave a smoke barrage? It puts the base howies on cooldown but it doesn't cost anything?
You could give them a smoke grenade as well, doesn't change the fact that the Brits still need reliable mobile indirect fire support, and sometimes you need it at 2 different locations at once so the base howitzers cannot provide that. |
The reason why I choose sappers is because IS already has Arty ability + Healing kit. However putting snares on IS by making them upgrade to a TH kit could also work.
It is still the only flame truck in game which costs no fuel at all. If it won't get moved to T2 at least make it cost 10 fuel.
By reducing the Popcap of it it could be used more often without having no Popcap left for other stuff and by reducing its penetration and rate of fire I wanted to prevent a abusive spam of them.
The idea is that the mortar itself is shit but in combination with the Mortar pit works fine.
Agreed on the fuel cost on the UC, perhaps with the mobile mortar it wouldn't be the only viable option for anti-garrison duty which would help balance out it's shitty armor.
And I'd rather have the option to delete the emplacements when they're not needed anymore.
As for the mortar, I can kind of see your point with it so maybe while keeping it unique it could still work, but still the mortar should be able to garrison trenches as well for it's full effectiveness to take place.
So perhaps have it with low fire rate like the current 3-inch mortars in the pit that gets boosted when it's garrisoned? Just write in the description that the reason is the other members of the squad help out to load and coordinate firing the mortar, similar to the Panzer Elite vehicles in CoH having the ability to lock down in order to fire faster, and more accurately. |
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- Making the tank hunter an upgrade for the IS which would gain the boys AT Rifles as well as that HEAT grenade would be easier and make more sense plus be more practical, all snares are located on the mainline infantry units, I don't see why the UKF should be any different plus you normally have 2 or 3 IS while only 1 or 2 Sappers, it would be too sad of an impractical gimmick to have them on the Sappers to be honest, in my opinion of course, I could be wrong about this.
- The UC has paper for armor and is the only flame based option for the UKF, moving it to the next tier would make it completely useless without proper armor.
- No idea what the deal with the Bofors is, I rarely see it nowadays being used even besides for heavy duty AA purposes at which it doesn't even excel at.
- Giving the Brits the past shitty USF M2 60mm mortar with low range and quick tear down time just for the sake of it would be a bad decision if you ask me, it should not only provide smoke support but actually be a reliable 3-inch mortar team indirect fire option for the British, we don't need an even shittier indirect fire than now.
- I agree with the Mortar pit change, if not then I suggest that the trenches be allowed to garrison Mortars again, I don't know why they removed them in the first place even.
I'd also add the Sherman Firefly to the list of needing a change, I was in a 3v3 last game (yes Katitof, against real people) and the Firefly under-performed like no tomorrow, the guy literally had 3 or 4 Fireflies out of nowhere plus a Churchill and a friendly KT tanked the shots at the front while my Tiger circled at the back and flanked them, they started rotating their turrets but to no avail. I think that the reliance on Tulips is what hurts them so much, Tulips should either be something as a bonus for their cost or removed completely so the Firefly can actually perform it's intended role not as shittly. |
Since you didn't bother with the rest of my points perhaps it is you with the poor attention span.
Oh and I stopped at combat engies as I realized that in order for you to not be pedantic I would need to make a table with how RE have more uses than all other engineer units (save sappers perhaps), and then you would then not read it anyways. Tell me do pioneers carry bazookas and build green cover better than rear echelons? Answer me that, I dare you.
And it doesn't even fucking matter what other units utility is. Another engi unit having a bajillion ultility doesn't negate RE also haveing utility as well. What silly logic do you run on?
In the few rare instances in my life time I will have to agree with him.
Riflemen field defenses make the Rifles half RE because they can build everything the REs can save for caches and tank traps.
Of course then they wouldn't have mine sweepers but technically speaking, USF would not suffer as much without REs as other Armies.
I have always viewed them as some Osttruppen unit that can repair and build a bit more stuff as well as have minesweepers, and of course pick up weapons from the weapon racks. |
As far as I know, this was the same group of modders as the last patch, which was one of the best ever. The difference was that this patch didn't seem to have any of the feedback that the last one did.
I don't think that anyone is doubting the modders skill, but do think that they have preferred factions. If you doubt this, just go back and read their notes from the WPB:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/243341/winter-balance-preview-changelog#latest
According to them, nearly every useful allied unit was overperforming and every axis unit was underperforming. They didn't go quite that far this time, but almost.
There were a few good things done on this patch. They did a good job of making the super-units like JT's & Ele's counterable without overbuffing the counters.
However, this is ultimately on Relic as it is their game and they decided to implement this patch.
It's my own opinion that because of all of the crying about the Western Front Armies being OP and the EFA being left in the mud they just nerfed them down to EFA level to satisfy the few... I will refrain from calling them names but it's what the deserve honestly and it's why you don't see them with that stupid shit anymore here.
But yes I do agree with you that there was little to no feedback taken from the community last patch, as well as now with the new commanders and revamps.
It's like Coh2.org's got talent with us trying to persuade the jury that our ideas are not stupid af.
And lastly I'm not saying that the guys in charge of balance got hit with a dose of elitism but it's probably possible that the successful patch you mentioned went to their heads a little too much so they thought that the community's feedback was no longer neccessary and that they already know what to do perfectly well.
At the end of the day we should all remember that as humans we are susceptible to the corruption of power, fame and glory, money, sex and so forth. |
Making a mistake once is human, but repeating it.......
The balance team showed their bias in their first patch. Relic seemed to learn from it and the second patch was much better. Unfortunately, they let them "balance" the game again with even less oversight than the first, so they managed to kill two allied factions instead of one.
Giving them full creative freedom would probably allow them to make all three allied factions non-competitive.
I'd be fine if they balanced primarily for elite 1v1 players. I'm not one of those but I'd find a way to adapt. However, even the elite players think the last balance patch is terrible. Relic does own this, because they own the game and let the balance team "balance" by themselves.
PS - blaming scope is a joke when the basic infantry is so unbalanced.
Right, so who gets to call the shots on the balance then?
Relic severely limits the team on what they can do, but you say that the team is biased, but then again Relic decided to trust them to "fix" their game.
So how do we solve this? They won't fix it themselves so they need unbiased modders, but such people are hard to come by and I would volunteer but I will sure as hell not accept bullshit scopes and rushing of development be put on me and I think that many other modders will agree, feedback and suggestions yes, some compromises maybe, but flat out me putting my ass to hang for some ungrateful person, no way, I've done it enough to know that it's generally not worth it.
Apart from that they'll probably never accept me in a balance team but just putting it out there, I'm willing to fix the game for the sake of the loyal fanbase, but not under bullshit circumstances. |
Changing it to a ammo based one would also affect the Encirclement doctrine which is in a good spot in my opinion. What about switching the ASS grens with Infiltration ones and the Breakthrough ability with Zeroing arty? Maybe Could be a good combination with the Infiltration grens as spotter for the arty?
Infiltration Grens? That wouldn't make sense to be honest, you're better off just replacing them with Stormtroopers.
Zeroing Arty sounds good, it's just that Breakthrough sounds like some sort of Blitzrkrieg like ability that would be nice to really "break through" so to speak.
Or I don't know, a "Blitzkrieg" ability that buffs both infantry and vehicles when near each other, something like the USF Combined Arms?
Either way worksI guess. |
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