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Thread: Wehrmacht Infantry- whats the excuse now?27 Jun 2016, 21:56 PM

Grenadiers are the worst infantry in the game. Conscripts are superior due to 6 man squads and the PPSh upgrade is more versatile than the LMG42 which requires you to be stationary with a 4 model squad.

The grenadier survivability stats have not been changed in any way since this table was developed. Pretty clear to see why they quickly become wasted manpower.

I wanted to compare the UKF's Infantry Sections to other infantry with roughly the same position in the other factions. Here are the stats:
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Stat Infantry Sections Grenadiers Osttruppen Obersoldaten Panzerfusilliers Riflemen Conscripts Penal Battalions

Squad Cost/Cost per Model 280/70 240/60 200/33.33 400/100 290/48.33 280/56 240/40 270/45

Reinforcement Cost/Time 35/7 30/6 ~16.6/2 40/12.5 24.16/4.8 28/5.6 20/4 22.5/4.5

Number of Models 4-5 4 6 4 6 5 6 6

Total Health 320 - 400 320 480 320 480 400 480 480

Received Accuracy 0.8 0.91 1.25 0.7 1 0.97 1.087 1

Effective Health 400 - 500 ~352 384 ~457 480 ~412 ~442 480

Final Received Accuracy (vet 2 IS, vet 4 Obers, vet 3 all others) 0.528 0.7007 0.89375 0.38527 0.77 ~0.56 (next patch: 0.5975) 0.6522 0.77

Final Effective Health ~606 - ~758 ~457 ~537 ~831 ~623 ~714 (next patch: ~669) ~736 ~623

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Please note: Infantry Sections have 30% longer cooldown and 50% longer reload out of cover. Osttruppen have three times the listed accuracy in cover.
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Stat Lee-Enfield Gren Kar98K Ost Kar98K Ober Kar98K PF Kar98K M1 Garand Conscript Mosin-Nagant SVT

Damage 16 16 8 16 10 8 16 8

Cooldown 0.375/0.6 0.75/1.25 0.75/1.25 0.75/1.25 0.75/1.25 0.5/1 1.25/1.75 0.5/1

Reload 1.25 1.5/2.6 1.5/2.6 1.5/2.6 1.5/2.6 2.1/2.8 2.4/3.4 2/3.5

Magazine 10 6/7 6/7 6/7 5/6 9/10 9/10 11

Accuracy (N/M/F) 0.598/0.564/0.529 0.748/0.661/0.598 0.3165/0.299/0.282 0.92/0.863/0.805 0.805/0.748/0.69 0.713/0.667/0.5175 0.541/0.495/0.334 0.69/0.46/0.288

Moving Acc/Cooldown Multiplier 0.25/1.5 0.5/1.5 0.25/1.5 0.5/1 0.5/1 0.6/1.25 0.5/1.5 0.5/0.5

In: Lobby

Thread: Where's the hotfix?27 Jun 2016, 21:46 PM

27 Jun 2016, 09:26 AMBurts

No they don't.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that grenadiers have a higher DPS than their allied counterparts to make up for their smaller squad size.

False. DPS output is nullified by the fact models will get dropped immediately.

In: COH2 Balance

Thread: Where's the hotfix?27 Jun 2016, 21:44 PM

27 Jun 2016, 09:20 AMMr.Smith

To have a case, you need to compare something to something else. If the other units have changed, who are you going to compare to?

PS: What about Grenadier LMG?

EDIT: The stats are incorrect even for Grenadier kar98.
e.g.: Cooldown should be 0.25/1.5

You are still missing aimtime and winddown, which are massive (in the order of 2.5 secs between shots). That's why cooldown doesn't even tell half of the story.

My post is about survivability. Those survivability stats are still accurate for other units, therefore point is still valid that grenadiers are the worst infantry in the game, and do not scale late game where they will get wiped out constantly.

Their damage output is not in any way significant when compared to the DPS output of allied infantry with upgraded weapons. Not to mention the fact many players will be constantly wasting 60 munis to get squadwiped incessantly.

In: COH2 Balance

Thread: Where's the hotfix?27 Jun 2016, 09:13 AM

While some other units have been changed, grenadiers have not had any edits in any patches since those stats were published.

Point still stands.

In: COH2 Balance

Thread: Where's the hotfix?27 Jun 2016, 08:03 AM

MG42 will get wiped within 2 barrages from a USF mortar currently.

Some nice stats displaying the glassy grenadier problem:

I wanted to compare the UKF's Infantry Sections to other infantry with roughly the same position in the other factions. Here are the stats:
.

Stat Infantry Sections Grenadiers Osttruppen Obersoldaten Panzerfusilliers Riflemen Conscripts Penal Battalions

Squad Cost/Cost per Model 280/70 240/60 200/33.33 400/100 290/48.33 280/56 240/40 270/45

Reinforcement Cost/Time 35/7 30/6 ~16.6/2 40/12.5 24.16/4.8 28/5.6 20/4 22.5/4.5

Number of Models 4-5 4 6 4 6 5 6 6

Total Health 320 - 400 320 480 320 480 400 480 480

Received Accuracy 0.8 0.91 1.25 0.7 1 0.97 1.087 1

Effective Health 400 - 500 ~352 384 ~457 480 ~412 ~442 480

Final Received Accuracy (vet 2 IS, vet 4 Obers, vet 3 all others) 0.528 0.7007 0.89375 0.38527 0.77 ~0.56 (next patch: 0.5975) 0.6522 0.77

Final Effective Health ~606 - ~758 ~457 ~537 ~831 ~623 ~714 (next patch: ~669) ~736 ~623

.
Please note: Infantry Sections have 30% longer cooldown and 50% longer reload out of cover. Osttruppen have three times the listed accuracy in cover.
.

Stat Lee-Enfield Gren Kar98K Ost Kar98K Ober Kar98K PF Kar98K M1 Garand Conscript Mosin-Nagant SVT

Damage 16 16 8 16 10 8 16 8

Cooldown 0.375/0.6 0.75/1.25 0.75/1.25 0.75/1.25 0.75/1.25 0.5/1 1.25/1.75 0.5/1

Reload 1.25 1.5/2.6 1.5/2.6 1.5/2.6 1.5/2.6 2.1/2.8 2.4/3.4 2/3.5

Magazine 10 6/7 6/7 6/7 5/6 9/10 9/10 11

Accuracy (N/M/F) 0.598/0.564/0.529 0.748/0.661/0.598 0.3165/0.299/0.282 0.92/0.863/0.805 0.805/0.748/0.69 0.713/0.667/0.5175 0.541/0.495/0.334 0.69/0.46/0.288

Moving Acc/Cooldown Multiplier 0.25/1.5 0.5/1.5 0.25/1.5 0.5/1 0.5/1 0.6/1.25 0.5/1.5 0.5/0.5

.

In: COH2 Balance

Thread: Where's the hotfix?27 Jun 2016, 07:52 AM

Quite a few things seem to need hotfixes. One of those is the abysmal state of Ostheer infantry.

In: COH2 Balance

Thread: USF didn't need a mortar.27 Jun 2016, 07:49 AM

Mortar comes out in every single match against USF and totally dumpsters the MG, the only way Ostheer can contend with the constant rifleman spamming which also goes on in the majority of matches.

Allies right now seem to have too many tools available given the extreme strength of their mainline infantry units.

Matches have been laughably one-sided since the patch. That one particular "exploit" mechanic with USF armor is also being seen in every other match to add insult to injury.

In: COH2 Balance

Thread: Playing as alli is totally easy27 Jun 2016, 07:38 AM

27 Jun 2016, 07:02 AMKatitof

http://coh2chart.com/

This says you need to learn to play, as axis dominates everything above 1v1, where USF is little bit stronger, UKF is little bit weaker and remaining ones are balanced.

2v2 AT allies are on top at the moment, but this early might still be due players learning new OKW, so check the graphs in 2-3 weeks again.

My guess?

OKW is not easy shreck blob faction anylonger, if you had problems with old wehr combined arms, you will suck with new OKW as well as they rely on combined arms just as much now.

Check the stats in a few days as allied meta progresses.

USF mortar spam is over the top. Comes out in every match along with the ubiquitous rifleblob equipped with bazookas and LMGs.

Penal battalions now negate the previous early balance between grenadiers and conscripts, and grenadiers get hosed instantly with four man squads versus flamethrowers.

Stuart comes out so early to the point where you need to rush for AT or get wiped off the field.

Strong OKW infantry is beaten severely in the face of the super complimentary allied synergies.

In: COH2 Balance

Thread: Volks /grens27 Jun 2016, 04:17 AM

27 Jun 2016, 02:13 AMstonebone000

I have no issue keeping my infantry alive as Wehrmacht, maybe it's an issue on your end. Try verifying the game cache?

Thats not an argument, weak troll attempt. Sad!

In: COH2 Balance

Thread: Volks /grens26 Jun 2016, 19:27 PM

Grenadiers damage is great but survivability
Is obectively god awful. Even against soviets they get creamed late game. 5 man squads are a must, and a marginal boost to received accuracy increasing their effective health with veterancy just makes sense. The squad wipes with grenadiers are constant, even with early retreats. They do not stand a chance against their rival units once veterancy comes into play and stand to get wiped easily even before then - this has been a longstanding issue ever since the advent of rifleblob spam and introduction of new units in general. During vanilla game they would also get constantly dumpstered bunching up on mines, getting 120mm mortared, and isu'ed.

In: COH2 Balance