And snipers health was increased to 82 to improve its survivability against mortars.
Are snipers a direct mortar counters now?
Don't try to confuse the topic because you have no other retort.
You claimed that the panther changes were "logically a buff" (based on pointlessly comparing it to the Churchill)
If you look at the numbers, the changes seem to agugably provide a decrease in performance which is "logically" a nerf. |
How many times does it need to be said, that panther is NOT a counter against TDs, but is supposed to BE countered by them, until it finally sinks?
Well someone didn't read the patch notes.
"the health bonus at veterancy 2 has been shifted to the unit’s stock performance to improve its survivability against tank destroyers." |
Let me remind you that taking away HP and increasing armor was a direct nerf to Churchill back in the day.
Opposite logically is a buff.
If you run the numbers for a panther vs allied tank destroyers and you look at average shots to kill a panther pre and post patch, the panther has a mild nerf at vet 0 in this situation (with slightly more survivability) and at vet 2 a hard nerf. Despite mod makers saying that this will help the panther vs tank destroyers, this is not the case, you can see the calculated averages in the last couple main patch discussion thread. |
And of course this is comparing a vet 2 panther to a vet 0 tank destroyer. Once you throw that into the mix, things just get worse.
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can you understand this? maybe I'm wrong or maybe you are a little troll, but numbers don't lie
even in vet 0 and 1 this change is a nerf in survivability of the panther, and in vet 2 and 3 its a huge NERF specially against medium tanks.
You are not accounting for the 200+ dmg of USF and Firefly (which the panther struggles against currently IMO)
Plugging that into your formula:
Shots to kill @ 240 pen and 200 damage
| Prepatch | Post |
| Vet 0 | 75% chance to pen, 5.33 shots | 92.3% chance to pen, 5.2 shots |
| Vet 2 | 75% chance to pen, 6.4 shots | 83.9% chance to pen, 5.72 shots |
Or we can calculate it for Firefly:
Shots to kill @ 210 pen far and 200 damage
| Prepatch Armour | Post |
| Vet 0 | 65.6% chance to pen, 6.09 shots | 80.7% chance to pen, shots 5.94 |
| Vet 2 | 65.6% chance to pen, 7.31 shots | 73.4% chance to pen, shots 6.53 |
Or AP jackson
Shots to kill @ 250 pen far and 200 damage
| Prepatch | Post |
| Vet 0 | 78.1% chance to pen, 5.12 shots | 96.1% chance to pen, 4.99 shots |
| Vet 2 | 78.1% chance to pen, 6.14 shots | 87.4% chance to pen, 5.49 shots |
or Su85 or normal jackson (same pen) for completeness
Shots to kill @ 220 pen far and 160 damage
| Prepatch | Post |
| Vet 0 | 68.7% chance to pen, 7.27 shots | 84.6% chance to pen, 7.09 shots |
| Vet 2 | 68.7% chance to pen, 8.73 shots | 76.9% chance to pen, 7.80 shots |
For the record:
| Prepatch | Post |
| Vet 0 | 800hp 320 armour | 960hp 260 armour |
| Vet 2 | 960hp 320 armour | 960hp 286 armour |
Sure post patch the panther may be more tough vs medium tanks, but that isn't going what make panthers a poor unit at the moment.
I'm a little confused on why people are complaining about swapping armor for hp on the panther. Considering the Panther is likely to come out around the same times as allied TDs armor basically become unimportant as allied tds already have a high armor pen. Therefore adding hp to the panther gives it survivability against its biggest counter - TDs.
I dont think thats necessarily true against 200 allied TDs (or even the su85). Against the firefly and AP Jackson, it looks like the panther may be worse off.
Did I mess up my math here? Because seems to me that the numbers say that panthers will be worse off vs tank destroyers contrary to what the mod makers have said.
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As you know I'm quite active on this forum and I proposed unique and balanced solutions many times.
Like that time when you suggested to give the su76 HE ammo so that it could act as a 90 fuel Isu152?
Fair and balanced indeed. |
This combines the nerf to Guards and PTRS, make Soviet sniper a easy prey for the Axis.
If only SU had some sort of infantry that could sprint and throw an anti tank grenade, hmmm. |
You look like person who know somthing. So tell to us, what ranks of players can criticize, how many hours thay must have to do it ? And what another must to do, just look that some kind of abusers (suggested by the literal best players that this community has) you must write there names, if you use them like proofs to defend but not explaine patch changes. I think community must know heroes, specially part that are 2k ranks players and dont play game.
You guys use same logic taht close to Hainlaine books, where if you dont was in army, you dont have civil rights. For our community its more looks like part of nazi or rasism. Not top ???? 5 ? 10 ? 20 ? 50 ? You opinion are nothing untermench ? So tell to us Jae, how many top players watch you in tounreys ? 5 or 10 ? or maybe it was hundreds of regular players ?
Thanks, nice to know that in balance team are part of elite nazi players, that win 0 in Esport coh, but exhibit themselves like navel of Earth.
Wow, you say tourneys winners, so its must be DevM, Noggano, VonIvan, Jove, Barton, Luvnest, Paula ? How many time thay spend for it, coz thay study, work ? Or thay just make signature (good/bad changes) ?
Back again with few words, so this top players and tounrey winners are so good, so thay cannot push retreut buttno from katysha shoot, but dont have same problem with stuka and PW ? Did thay are best after this ?
Also constructors of planes are not best pilots, but best pilots are not constructors.
This grammer actually hurts a little. |
Axis players just abuse these units...
8 CP and 350 MP, 45 Fuel is too easy to build.
Ill repeat myself, If you chose a doctrine that doesn't have the requisite one click removal of the doctrinal 88 and 105mm, then you have been outplayed, sucks for you.
Furthermore OST and OKW aren't the only faction with a howitzer so you cant claim imba for that as well. |
Is there a reason why the LEIGs 20% scatter reduction comes at vet 5 compared to the vet 3 of all other mortars?
Also wth is happening with the LEIG changes?
Post patch its vet will be (unless "Vet 1 range bonus now applies a 25% bonus to smoke barrage range only" does not affect the 5% bonus to barrage range)
| Vet 1 | 25% smoke range (and %5 barrage range?) |
| Vet 2 | 33% smoke range, -23% received accuracy (yay?) |
| Vet 3 | -40% barrage recharge |
| Vet 4 | +5 shots fired per barrage |
| Vet 5 | +15% damage, 20% scatter reduction bonus |
I think you should really completely rework its vet, smoke range is nice, but is kinda valuless as its just going make up for the 150 -> 100 smoke range nerf and it certainly doesn't need two identical bonuses. Vet 3 barrage recharge and vet 4 overlap so that's another wasted vet bonus, and the 20% scatter reduction will never be reached in most games. Let me know if I have any of the above wrong, but all in all the leig's vet is a frankenstein combination of when it's role was a direct fire support gun and now as a slightly more expensive mortar.
Also will the AOE buff increase N/M/F ranges?
And also are XP values going to be looked at, some are too low (su76) and practically all of OKW is a mess. |
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