i doubt you even played USF or UKF at all so dont call other people for things your self are responsible for
why i believe you are not even playing Allied factions???
Iv been playing USF lately, Iv avoided UKF because the wait times or horrendous.
1)calling the Pack Howitzer better then the ISG
anyone who has played USF and used this gun KNOWS how awful it is at providing indirect fire support
you on the other hand believe otherwise
its fine really if you didnt......
They Pack Howi and ISG are good, they are just good in different ways. LeiG is slightly more accurate but the Pack Howi has better AoE and Vet.
2)Werhmacht Sniper
calling its current state balanced while ignoring UKFs problems against it
Never said that?
3)calling the AVRE OP but the Sturmtiger "balanced"
calling a copy of a unit OP but the unit it was copied from "OK" or "balanced"
just SHOWS you dont play allies
The AVRE has much more health, mobility, and ease of use. The Sturmtiger is a lot harder to use, but is still effective. I don't see what the issue with these statements is.
1)the Vet System
instead complaining about British vet being supirior you should make a huge detailed thread as to why so many OKW units(like the king tiger) have shit vet abilitys
Thing is, I did?
Anyway the rest of your post is pure insanity, I can't even parse it. |
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They have the highest received accuracy of any base unit in the game. At vet 2 they have .528 received accuracy, with the 5 man squad upgrade they are one of the most durable squads in the entire game.
Building of that; they aren't meant to be used aggressively which is why it's thrown many players for a loop. And unlike most infantry they have flat accuracy so closing to short range doesn't net you anything and it allows you to engage at max range without giving anything up. |
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Ultimately any nerf to the OKW would be somewhat of a huge blow to OKW's ability to deal with Brits/blobs in 2v2 and 1v1 due to OKW lacking any other real indirect/long range artillery. Reducing the LeIG's auto attack to Pack Howi range would work but honestly what else does OKW have to project indirect fire?
This is of course speaking about indirect fire in an abstract sense, because you can't really use the ISG behind shotblockers. |
And regarding brace.
Problem with emplacements is not that how op brace are, but their bad design. Emplacements suffer so horribly even against simple mortars shelling thats only brace can save them. And even with brace it is impossible to repair them until Brit player forces mortars to retreat thanks to bonus damage applied to repairing units.
At the same time brace is just joke against heavy weaponry. Stuka 300mm rockets? Use brace and take less damage than from a mortar shell. Railroad arty shells? The same.
Thats just complete fail.
Emplacements should be very survivable against small caliber indirect fire like mortars, isgs and mortarHTcs. In exchange for that they should take colossal, but not lethal damage form heavy bomibing, normal artillery, tanks, shrecks and even atguns. This way they dont need brace in the first place.
This is an excellent post, but I think flames should still do high damage to emplacements. Just not have that damage stacked 4-5 times  |
Have you?
Turbomortar will not be OP anymore, but still will be better then sov mortar, sniper will be less, but still extremely effective vs brits.
StuG TWP have different role, everything else are buffs.
OKW:
IR HT gets 5 fuel costs, everything else are buffs with most important one-garrison clear with inc nades you don't need to research, because axis.
Ohh yes, so much shut on, especially poor OKW, IR HT spam abuse meta will now end!
And guess what?
Despite what you say, OKW gets buffs only this patch.
Comparing what you say with patch notes, it makes you look like a biased, blind fanboy.
I'm looking at USF and I see no early game changes, just quality of life changes(ambulance, AA HT) and adjustments for mid and late game, so its actually on the level of ost(sherman buff, EZ8 buff, rifle scaling, priest brought up to the level of other arty pieces) addition of useful mine and removal of def stance, which will weaken greatly LMG rifles, bugfix for .50 cal.
Yea, thats an unending stream of buffs, especially compared to OKW
I PLAY all of the fucking factions. I'm aware of problems and strengths of every faction more then any of you, rampaging fanbois.
You're wrong here as well, Brits are the weakest 1v1 faction by far, if you say otherwise, you have no slightest clue on how to play axis.
Let me remind you that before brits release OKW had BY FAR THE HIGHEST WIN RATIO between 2v2 and 4v4.
New faction released, people didn't knew how to fight it, some units were imbalanced and overperforming, win ratio dropped-who would have ever expected that?
God damn hypocrites like you is why we can't have proper discussions around here.
You should have kept reading the thread and following replies, you wouldn't have made yourself look like utter a-hole without a clue right now.
Well, we know you haven't played anything but a few AT games in 3+ weeks. Every single one of your other rankings is on hold. But I don't want to get into playercard fuckery.
Anyway!
I highlighted why OKW has issues in this thread; http://www.coh2.org/topic/40455/okw-design-and-gameplay-outdated
Vet 5 should have never been a thing. Brits Veterancy is extremely potent without 2 extra levels, they just have a lot crammed into 3 which is how OKW should have been designed. Increase the cost of vet by a small amount but cram more bonus's into each level so you have goods scaling in the time frame of an average game rather than hoping you drag out into a 1 hour match.
Honestly If I would to point out specific problems I would say it's simply the same reason USF has issues, except we know USF is getting 3 new commanders to help fix this problem and OKW is only getting one.
1. Lack of a effective mainline infantry, now you might say Shrek'd Volks, and well you'd be right the Shrek sure is good but the infantry wielding it are just bad. And with the recent rackten buffs there isn't much to sell Volks on other than he incendiary nade, and then you just need 2 really. I would raise their price up to 250 and make them the middle ground between Riflemen and Grens, also give em a bonus to accuracy/ROF in cover so they won't be blobbed but can still stand up to enemy infantry without falling apart. Currently even Conscripts walk all over Volks until Volks hit vet 5 and now with the Conscript scaling buffs even that won't be the case.
2. Lack of diversity in upgrades and automatic weaponry. Paradoxically OKW has the MOST amount of rifle/kar98k units in the game when the real OKW (well, equivalent anyway) used massive amounts of automatic fire to make up for reduced quality in soldiers and numbers. Almost all OKW units either don't have an upgrade or just have 1 you almost always automatically take. Volks should have at least 2 upgrades to chose from, StG's or LMG34 should be a choice on Obers without a doctrine (IR which ignore cover remaining doctrinal of course), Sturms should have a flamethrower (that locks out the repair one), ect.
3. No real heavy indirect fire outside of the Stuka Zu Fuss. Yeah the Stuka is very effective but it's also horrifyingly expensive which is a non-starter in 1v1 and 2v2. The ease at which you can avoid the rockets has made it relegated to being a building counter which won't be necessary with incendiary nades. Other than countering buildings it's good for countering heavy support weapon play (although you can still avoid the barrages), but still OKW should have some sort of Howitzer commander to give a MP only artillery option.
4. Lack of defensive options. This one is a big hitter since right now OKW's defensive options are limited only to the Flak Truck. The proliferation of indirect fire and the heavy reliance on trucks for OKW has made it so playing defensively like Brits can is basically impossible because if the game drags on to long you will just drown in artillery and off maps. The MG34 can't do it's job; and while it's cheap as chips I would rather have a MG that does it's job instead of just being a piece of shit you can spam. It needs it's old damage back + a little suppression increase and a price raise. The Flak Emplacement needs to not be decrewable and just have it's gun mirrored to that of the Flak Track. A brace type option for OKW trucks (that disabled constructing units and healing/repairing/firing) would also go a long way towards stopping the whole "wait till you can just blow up all his trucks and sweep him off the map" thing.
5. To little fuel and to much MP. The fact OKW cannot spend popcap on high pop cap units (vehicles) means that OKW floats an insane amount of MP because it's never spending it or having to pay the popcap price of having vehicle. A good fix to this would be reducing the fuel cost of OKW vehicles by 20% and increase the MP cost by 50%.
6. To little to late phenomenon. I bring this up because the often "hold out for vehicles" strat OKW is shoe horned into most games simply doesn't pan out unless you hold superior map control to your opponent. A single Panther can't stop an entire armored advance (especially a British one using super high health tanks); a single OKW Panther is worth more than an IS2 due to the fuel penalty but is worse than it's Ostheer counterpart. There is also a snowball effect with the low ROF + high vet requirements meaning getting it up to 2-3-4-5 can take a while because it doesn't deal damage often.
7. Reliance on gimmicks. The reason why OKW remains powerful despite a lot of these things is very powerful gimmicks like going very heavy with Fuss and ignoring T4 by getting a JPIV. Using JLI to essentially replace any other elite infantry. Simply spamming so much infantry you break an opponent because they can't micro faster than you can and get map controlled to death.
Just my take from being a very long time OKW player. |
Justyfing building shooting down 540MP call in 
It's not my fault OKW isn't well designed and has no access to AA without spending almost 90 fuel+. It's not like when your playing against OKW you need to spend any MP or fuel on AA since OKW has no planes. |
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I should also point out OKW's weakness to indirect fire comes from more than just a reliance on trucks.
The only infantry AT-gun-esque unit OKW has is the rackten, but it has very tight crew spacing meaning wiping it with Mortars/Support Guns/Tanks/General Artillery isn't hard to do. Meaning constructing defensive lines with entrenched guns is hard because your MP based AT is prone to being 1 shot (or just instantly force retreated).
The lack of vehicles makes OKW extremely reliant on infantry heavy play. As vehicles are a lot less vulnerable to indirect fire this means the OKW player is already at a disadvantage since he/she simply cannot rely on tanks to help keep the line held while the Katyusha's sing and the Priests fire.
The reliance on keeping Vetted squads alive also makes it so when RNG artillery bullshit fire-on-HQ stuff happens you lose a lot more and a lucky priest shell on your HQ can easily kill half your army and the basic units you can make simply don't work later into the game unless they have 2-3 levels of vet.
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Vet 5 should have never been a thing. Brits Veterancy is extremely potent without 2 extra levels, they just have a lot crammed into 3 which is how OKW should have been designed. Increase the cost of vet by a small amount but cram more bonus's into each level so you have goods scaling in the time frame of an average game rather than hoping you drag out into a 1 hour match.
Honestly If I would to point out specific problems I would say it's simply the same reason USF has issues, except we know USF is getting 3 new commanders to help fix this problem and OKW is only getting one.
1. Lack of a effective mainline infantry, now you might say Shrek'd Volks, and well you'd be right the Shrek sure is good but the infantry wielding it are just bad. And with the recent rackten buffs there isn't much to sell Volks on other than he incendiary nade, and then you just need 2 really. I would raise their price up to 250 and make them the middle ground between Riflemen and Grens, also give em a bonus to accuracy/ROF in cover so they won't be blobbed but can still stand up to enemy infantry without falling apart. Currently even Conscripts walk all over Volks until Volks hit vet 5 and now with the Conscript scaling buffs even that won't be the case.
2. Lack of diversity in upgrades and automatic weaponry. Paradoxically OKW has the MOST amount of rifle/kar98k units in the game when the real OKW (well, equivalent anyway) used massive amounts of automatic fire to make up for reduced quality in soldiers and numbers. Almost all OKW units either don't have an upgrade or just have 1 you almost always automatically take. Volks should have at least 2 upgrades to chose from, StG's or LMG34 should be a choice on Obers without a doctrine (IR which ignore cover remaining doctrinal of course), Sturms should have a flamethrower (that locks out the repair one), ect.
3. No real heavy indirect fire outside of the Stuka Zu Fuss. Yeah the Stuka is very effective but it's also horrifyingly expensive which is a non-starter in 1v1 and 2v2. The ease at which you can avoid the rockets has made it relegated to being a building counter which won't be necessary with incendiary nades. Other than countering buildings it's good for countering heavy support weapon play (although you can still avoid the barrages), but still OKW should have some sort of Howitzer commander to give a MP only artillery option.
4. Lack of defensive options. This one is a big hitter since right now OKW's defensive options are limited only to the Flak Truck. The proliferation of indirect fire and the heavy reliance on trucks for OKW has made it so playing defensively like Brits can is basically impossible because if the game drags on to long you will just drown in artillery and off maps. The MG34 can't do it's job; and while it's cheap as chips I would rather have a MG that does it's job instead of just being a piece of shit you can spam. It needs it's old damage back + a little suppression increase and a price raise. The Flak Emplacement needs to not be decrewable and just have it's gun mirrored to that of the Flak Track. A brace type option for OKW trucks (that disabled constructing units and healing/repairing/firing) would also go a long way towards stopping the whole "wait till you can just blow up all his trucks and sweep him off the map" thing.
5. To little fuel and to much MP. The fact OKW cannot spend popcap on high pop cap units (vehicles) means that OKW floats an insane amount of MP because it's never spending it or having to pay the popcap price of having vehicle. A good fix to this would be reducing the fuel cost of OKW vehicles by 20% and increase the MP cost by 50%.
6. To little to late phenomenon. I bring this up because the often "hold out for vehicles" strat OKW is shoe horned into most games simply doesn't pan out unless you hold superior map control to your opponent. A single Panther can't stop an entire armored advance (especially a British one using super high health tanks); a single OKW Panther is worth more than an IS2 due to the fuel penalty but is worse than it's Ostheer counterpart. There is also a snowball effect with the low ROF + high vet requirements meaning getting it up to 2-3-4-5 can take a while because it doesn't deal damage often.
7. Reliance on gimmicks. The reason why OKW remains powerful despite a lot of these things is very powerful gimmicks like going very heavy with Fuss and ignoring T4 by getting a JPIV. Using JLI to essentially replace any other elite infantry. Simply spamming so much infantry you break an opponent because they can't micro faster than you can and get map controlled to death.
Just my take from being a very long time OKW player. |
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The reason the Schwer is AA is because to get AA you need to either have already started as Mech (not very viable anymore) or back tech THEN get a Flak Track. Which for OKW just dumping 55 (82.5) fuel on something to shoot down planes is a hard choice.
Although I always do it versus P47 spammers, have got Flak Tracks to vet 4 just by shooting those down. |
Planes have always been collidable objects, you can also crash gliders by hitting them with Stuka Zu Fuss rockets 
You can also have Stuka rockets hit planes, always funny when that happens. |
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