The jagdtiger comes with infantry that has huge visual range with a 90 ammo upgrade cost. I agree that the elefant is better than JT, but it's still the toughest tank in the game with the longest range. Why wouldn't I stun a churchill so my paks can get more shots in? In my experience it's an incredibly useful ability, and I've never seen this ''escape after being stunned''situation you described.
The amount of DPS you are doing is significantly lessened unless you instantly attempt to use stun shot right after it fires as you are forcing it to reload. Also stun shot is better used on Pak's because it's a guaranteed chance to pen anyway. Against tanks with 640 or near that health Elefant stun shot isn't very useful. It's not about escaping after stun, it's escaping BECAUSE you tried to use stun.
Pfuss are excellent, yes but later on in the game were you are having to micro like crazy it's hard to always dedicate squads to baby sitting the JT and preventing flanks. It's also such a massive investment that leaves you wide open to enemy infantry and tank spam because you just dumped the equivalent of 367 allied fuel into one tank.
They face worse AT since they have higher armor and allies AT weapons do not have higher pen values than axis counterparts.
How are you supposed to hit the rear armor of a jagd without swarming the enemy with all of your tanks?
All unit values and stats are tied to cost, not faction. Axis tanks don't magically have better armor because Krupp Steel they have better armor because they cost a fuckload more. It wouldn't make sense for cheaper tanks to have better armor now would it?
And you can hit the rear armor of the Jadg by pulling a deep flank with fast tank like Sherman/Easy Eight/T34 variants, ect. Or going in with PIATS or Zooks. The Jadgtiger also can easily be stun locked by just shooting at it (you don't need to pen it to stun it).
I did play with them. I use them every game and I never lost them!
If your confidant in this you should link your playercard. Until you do this statement is meaningless.
Since when is a JT or an elefant a rare sight in 2v2s? The same mode where churchill spam becomes relevant? Unless I missed a memo and every 1v1 game is a churchill rush into more churchills
Statistically most games don't last long enough for 14-15 CP units to enter the field and the Churchill hit's the field around 8-9 CP's. Going Churchill every game has been the 1v1 meta since release dude.
3v3 and 4v4 will remain unfun and broken as long as the maps are literal garbage because they encourage camping due to bad design. It's way to easy to all goon rush 2 points and totally ignore the rest of the map and just rely on gimmicks/spam to win the game for you instead of tactical acumen.
TLDR: Churchill current performance is fine,its cost for its performance is not.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. So I have no idea whats with all the hostility. You made a good point that spamming LeiG's and going Spec Op's is the best counter to Brits, in fact, it's pretty much the ONLY counter.
I haven't been posting lately because of IRL and the fact as you said the game is buggy and broken atm and I'm tired of all the toxicity on the forums (being treated like shit for months despite doing your best to bug report and help people sucks). Hope this Helps.
Speed doesn't matter when you have 80 range, neither does health. Stun on a 320 dmg 80 range beast is not super veterancy?
Range beyond 60 in this game is largely irrelevant because the maps simply don't allow for it and you need sighting. So this means you need to spend a lot of resources to keep the tank sighted, protected and constantly combat effective. The Jadgtiger doesn't get stun and the Elefant has 70 range. Using stun shot with an Elefant is really, really dumb because it resets your reload (which is 8-9 seconds) and often allows a tank you could have killed to get away.
The reason why the Elefant > Jadgtiger is the Elefants superior mobility, the fact it does not get stunned when hit, and it can self sight with spotting scopes in one commander and hulldowned to avoid rocket damage in another. The elefant also has a traversal gun
But hey atleast they have more range. And armor. And AT. And face worse AT.
Their rear armor isn't that good, and they don't face worse AT at all. All AT is based on cost, Allied AT is just as good as Axis AT for what it costs, the only outliers are 57mm being mediocre and 6 Pounder being way to good. You might have had a point several years/patches ago, not anymore.
I've yet to see a jt or elefant die to anything else without a fatal user error but m10 spam.
Try actually playing with these units. Watching means nothing since it's impossible to build an informed opinion without personal experience.
I fail to see how 1 unit shutting down any armor play on certain maps, and heavily limiting on others is somehow more ''healthy'' than a churchill that has to drive up to be effective. Mind you I never said the current churchill is fine, but when it comes to gameplay is way less obnoxious than having your only decent AT tanks be in need of repair after 1 shot
Funny that despite the Elefant and JT being so good as you claim almost none were seen in OCF and they are still rare units outside of 3v3 and 4v4. The counters to them are plentiful and the fact you can't use them is not Relics fault.
which still isn't a guarantee against moving target. Not to mention it's still one additional challenge you need to keep track of in a game.
If you're busying control your tanks, you're probably not manually launching your PIAT. How long before people leaving to dodge in a curve to avoid the PIAT?
If you attack ground to were a tank is moving or in the middle of it then it will be hard to miss. I mean I would kill to have better micro rewarded with Zooks and Shreks in the same way.
Regardless, this thread is not about PIATS, I was merely commenting on them not being useless.
To back Cruzz up here. A LOT of the current problems in the game come from Relic not paying attention when they are coding and or just out right copy pasting old or unused unit files from the old Armies to make Brits. This results in blatantly OP or broken things that never made it into the game for a reason being added to Brits because ???.
Theres also massive inconsistency in various values. With the Cromwell, Comet, Church, ect. All having extremely good moving accuracy (.75 to be exact) while all having lower scatter than almost all other tanks resulting in them being insanely good at chasing and wiping squads or killing tanks on the move.
You can guarantee hit's on enemy vehicles using attack ground with PIAT's. Also still no addressing of the fact that Tulips have piercing which means you can skill shot tanks through wrecks and buildings.
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cblanco ★ 
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VonManteuffel 
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