Profile of Grumpy

Conversion and OKW's reduced income works based on percentages, which is how I got the idea. And Stuka Dive Bomb absolutely has to work on on-map artillery, it's the only real counter to it due to the ability to construct it in base sectors.

Stuka bombing strike is fine, it has a loud sound cue and requires the other play to move. Abilities like this are good because they encourage better micro. When this becomes problematic is when paired with an extremely efficient conversion like CAS has.

I think that the OKW conversion has a max increase of 2 muni for 1 fuel. If the fuel and muni income are balanced then you get the regular conversion rate.

I wouldn't mind the Stuka dive bomb if the conversion was just eliminated. The Soviet doctrines that have those type of bombing runs don't have fuel to muni conversion. Either that or make AA that actually works and give me a chance to counter.

double post

Elite Armored is garbage for a bunch of reasons;

-Emergency repair is bugged and can cause your tank to get decrewed every time it takes damage

-HEAT shells are the wrong type of shell and are easy to avoid

-PIV Ausf J's are just worse PIV's for almost the cost of a KT anyway. (At 210 for two they are 105 each but with the fuel penalty cost as much as an Ost PIV anyway). Also nobody wants 2 PIV's at 9 CP

-Panzer Commander is expensive and doesn't really do much other than look cool and call in extremely slow artillery barrages.

I agree that Elite armor is garbage, but OKW does have a medium, the Panther, it's just that it is a really expensive medium given the fuel penalty. It doesn't matter much in a 3 or 4 but in a 1v1 it means that it comes really late, and you always have to chose between JP4 (or Puma if you went mechanized) or being vulnerable for a long time if you're waiting to build Schwerer and Panther.

Am I the only one that doesn't play CAS, not because it's cheesy, but because it's so unbearably boring?

Anyway, this thing is much like the old B4, destroying all of your units with very low risk to your opponent (just muni drain) and with little counter play. At least you can Stuka the B4, but CAS AT strafe is nearly impossible to shoot down on the first pass.

That being said, I find it hilarious that the same people who defended the old B4 are now complaining about CAS.

The old B4 at least had some trade-offs, because it doesn't have any good armor and if someone built a B4 within walking stuka range of the front line, it would get decrewed constantly and not able to get to Vet 1, which limited its usefulness. CAS still has access to Panthers. It also didn't hard-counter a lot of doctrines like CAS (which ensures that allies can't have on-map arty). It was over-nerfed to the point that nobody would use it anyway, even if Relic hadn't gone full retard and gave everyone CAS.

How about instead of nerfing CAS, we make a USF doctrine that has the same fuel to muni conversion, buffs the P47 to the same damage as the AT strafe, includes IR pathfinders, recon, and a suppression strafe. A mirrored commander would have to be fair, right?

I genuinely had no idea about that until this thread. All I knew was that you were friends with Brad. I've since talked to others about it, and had the full story.

If I caused offence, I apologise. It wasn't my intention.


REQUEST TO MODS: I'd like this topic to continue about the subject it's intended for, from this point on. If it degenerates again, please close.

It's difficult to have a good discussion on this when we don't have a good data set. Anecdotally, it feels like the balance is somewhat okay in 1's and 2's but not good in 3's and 4's, which is similar to what the random results show. That said, the 3v3 and 4v4 random results would never be a good metric to use to balance the game, unless radical design changes were made (like eliminating all heavies). Realistically, Relic isn't going to make any radical design changes because the return on investment isn't likely to be acceptable. Most of the players play the computer or campaigns, and as long as those are fun to them, they will continue to buy DLC and expansions.


In the group of three that I normally play with, we had a seven game losing streak as allies and a 12 game winning streak as axis at the same time with the current patch. Now, maybe we suddenly forgot how to play allies and only know how to play when playing axis, or maybe the balance in larger games shifted.

In any case, Relic didn't do us any favors by implementing just part of a balance patch. Eventually, we will figure something out that is somewhat competitive as allies in 3's and 4's only to have to go through the same process again when the rest of the changes hit. In the meantime, I'll likely play 1's and 2's as either faction and 3's and 4's as primarily axis, so I can feel good about myself and get the participation medal. Playing as axis is a lot more fun in larger games anyway, given that there is a lot more variety of ways to play as axis in larger games.

On a positive note, 1v1's as OKW seem better now.