@Inverse - I know you weren't saying that COH2 has more RNG than DOTA2. But having played both competitively/extensively I have to disagree. COH2 probably has more individual instances of RNG than DOTA2 unless you want to count literally every single creep vs creep attack in the game, which is a bit extreme. It also has more impactful RNG than DoTA2.
I do agree with your assessment that RNG and e-Sports are not exclusive. RNG plays an extremely important role in games, especially games like CoH 2 which are way more dynamic than SC2. The levels of RNG have been slowly lessened over time, which is good, but the current levels of RNG are probably not acceptable to most hardcore competitive players. For most competitive players, the competition drives/motivates more than the actual game itself. These players want to feel like they out-played opponents and deserve their victories, just like when they lose they want to be able to look back and figure out where to improve.
For the most part this is possible in COH2, but there are numerous moments you look back on and have to say "Well I guess I should have known that my full HP vet 5 Volk squad was going to get 1-shot by that 120mm mortar." A lot of players in the COH2 community blame RNG to an unfair extent because they're unwilling to admit that they got outplayed, or that they could have improved - but the fact of the matter is that currently singular extremely random/unpredictable events *too often* decide the outcome of matches.
Now, I'm not saying that the reason CoH 2 isn't an esport is because of RNG - because it's not. Yes lessening the impact of RNG would help COH2 improve as a game. Unfortunately I'm not sure any RTS in the current gaming community could succeed as a true esport in the modern sense. As you've correctly pointed out - even SC2 is struggling massively compared to the major titles like DoTA2, LoL, CS:GO, and HS.
Another unfair comparison that you make however, is that the price point of entry for COH 2 has traditionally been massively higher than currently successful titles like our friends: DOTA2, LoL and HS. Even CoH 2 can run ~2x the cost as CS:GO if you were to buy all factions (not including commanders). At the end of the day COH2 is simply way too different to fairly compare with any of those titles though.
I guess the point I'm getting at is this: COH2 has grown to become an amazing game, but it is suffering just like every other recently released RTS. As I said before, COH2 is probably the second most successful modern RTS - only behind SC2.
Also, since it just popped into my mind, I think there are numerous reasons why MOBAs have replaced RTS in many ways:
*Their nature as team games makes it a lot easier for new players to get into. RTS has traditionally always been a 1v1 genre. 1v1 is scary for new players.
*Scrubs don't like 1v1s. It's easy to blame others for your loss in a 5v5 environment.
*Free to play. It's extremely easy to convince friends to try out free games. People naturally like to play with/against their friends. Getting five buddies to download and hop on LoL/DOTA is exponentially easier than getting 5 buddies to hop on CoH 2.
*More gradual learning curve. There are a myriad of mechanics that are not clear in CoH2. I still find myself learning random things, or trying to wrap my head around how some mechanics actually work in CoH 2. DoTA 2 has some similarities in this regard in that because of the WC3 engine it used do exist in, there were some really wonky things that happened. However, the base level of knowledge that you have to have to begin enjoying the game with friends is pretty limited. Put your newbie friend on Leroic, tell him to stun people on cooldown, and let him have fun. Plus DOTA2 has a solid tutorial now.
Anyways, this post is getting way too long now.
TLDR - You're making a ton of unfair/unfounded/unjustified comparisons to try and explain why a game that you know next to nothing about isn't an esport.
Isn't more RNG a good thing in a way ? I mean the more dice rolls you have in the game the less luck is involved right ? The sheer amount of RNG moments in CoH2 makes for games where the better player comes out on top. Wanting "less RNG" is a really weird thing to say refering to CoH2 considering that every single engagement is decided by RNG. I hope I'm not wrong with this but there is a chance to miss in every single shot fired in the game right ? There is no "if you let Unit A attack Unit B it's gonna take 8.523 seconds until Unit B is dead" sort of thing in CoH2.
The results of most engagements vary quite massively. I think that when people use RNG they're actually meaning luck which is something completely different and it has just become a trend to blame RNG for your losses even if your opponent was significantly better than you.
The only thing I can think of right now that actually matches the idea of RNG (luck) people spread are plane crashes. 120mm one hits happen regularly so I don't see how they're lucky. If you keep a 120mm on the field for a long time there is gonna be a one shot eventually which is most definitely bad for the game but has nothing to do with luck.
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Sure, when players lose they may feel an exaggerated sense that RnG cost them the game.
Unfortunately, I'm painfully aware that RnG has not cost me any games, just my own bad play.
I suppose most of my RnG complaints are fixable by changing squad-clumping. mortar one-shots might go away if not that for that.
So I agree you with that probably RnG is not such a serious issue.
I have another feeling about blobs - I think it spoils the gameplay. That's a matter of taste though. If you're into blobbing up, then you'll probably be enjoying CoH2 very much.
And why call other forum users cry babies? We could probably get by without insults.
Fixed it for you  |
I think people are complaining because it is TOO random.
This is why the World Poker Tour doesn't use wildcards or jokers. That would add an unacceptably high level of randomness.
I agree RnG has its place in CoH but not in its current form.
I still think that's a myth. As long as the better player wins everything's fine.
Edit: And the whole myth has developed from scrubs shouting RNG after they lose even though they're not even close to a level where RNG decides games. It's the same with all the BLOB whiners. |
Do you know how dumb it is to get emotionally invested into something you have no control over? You're probably one of those people, and if so, you are retarded. Any true man who has a true sense of logic would not get that emotionally invested to the degree you are talking about. To give you an example go talk to a Surgeon, or better yet talk to a Cardio Surgeon. (My father is one) and he'll tell you (as he has raised me) that the most important thing is 'state of mind', and not to get too high or too low, if you let petty issues (Such as a soccer game result) control your emotions you're bound to have screw ups in life, in driving, in working, in relationships with others, everything and anything. It's one of the major causes along with substance abuse that drives people to make poor decisions. People who grow up tend to be able to make that differentiation, but then again not everyone grows up (Which is probably true for the majority of the COH2 community).
If you still disagree, I would love to see you go under the table with a surgeon who is emotionally invested and is having your definition of a 'Bad Day.' Sure you can sue him for Malpractice etc. etc. etc. but it still goes back to why you don't get emotionally invested into things to which you have no control over.
Each individuals has a capacity to which they can have pure focus/concentration and energy. What you choose to 'waste' yours on, is up to you, but those decisions can easily affect your life and where you end up in the grand scheme of things.
If you know a surgeon, go ask him yourself, if you don't know one, try to find one ask them. I promise you he will tell you that if anything he enjoys watching soccer, has a favorite team etc. etc. But he won't let the outcome of a match adversely affect his overall emotions. I'm over 1,000 miles away from you and I'm certain if you talk to one he'll say exactly that.
All I was saying is that my comparison to soccer is perfectly valid. I never claimed to be one of those people. My key point is that taking a hobby seriously like many coh2 players do is nothing unusual and considered normal at least in my culture.
Your post is nothing more than a theory. You could also argue that getting worked up over things that are completely irrelevant from an objective point of view functions as sort of an outlet that helps you to be able to stay calm when it comes to life challenges that actually matter. |
This isn't a Soccer Game, there is nothing they have in common other then 2 teams, and even the teams are hardly random. They way the scoring system is different, the way they win is different. Soccer had Refs, and if you wanna call refs RNG, then maybe....
So please tell me, what does the fact that CoH2 players take their game too seriously have to do with RNG ? The similiarities to sports games couldn't be more obvious. And I'm not reffering to the players here because for them football is a profession so it's completely logical that they take it 100% seriously. But think about the fans. There are plenty of people who consider their day ruined when their team lost even though it has zero actual impact on them.
Your point is basically that you shouldn't take CoH2 seriously because due to the high RNG factor you don't have enough influence on the outcome of the game. (which is bullshit btw) So how much impact does a soccer fan (or any sports fan for that matter) have on the game he's watching ? None, literally no impact at all. And yet it's completely normal in germany to get worked up over a soccer match. |
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Rifle Cimpany on urban maps, inf doc or air on open maps. BO: R,R,R,L,M20 |
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Well, people go crazy about all kinds of irrelevant stuff. Sports for example, have you ever been to a soccer game ? The hardcore fans get seriously mad all the time for completely irrational reasons. It's probably the same with the other sports. |
Unless you are dealing with scotts spam the panther performs better in every Circumstance, it still remains a good solution if you lost your t3, but you definitely shouldn't just get the jp4, unless you are planning on doing a t1+t2 strat with call in infantry and possibly a light vehicle (I like to do that with the LJI one).
No, just not, an ISU rapes the jp4 and just today I destroyed a jp4 with a jackson easily, granted he used it badly but I've never ever seen a jackson not penetrate a jp4 since the last patch.
You're wrong JP4 is superior. |
The stats you linked prove you wrong actually  |
T2 is still pretty good, you think elite troops should be higher or lower?
Tiger Ace is still formidable enough that you have to be get ready to counter it and vetted mortars are very dangerous.
Mech Assault is T1 in 1v1, but drops off in larger games
I must admit that after seeing Luvnest vs Vindicare yesterday I feel like I might have been wrong. I initially thought that Elite troops at T2 is too high. I still think that Fortifications is overrated tho. |
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