OKW faction has been design around high cost / high value units like Obers (stock), Fall/Jaeg (doctrinal) + Panzerfusillers (doctrinal).
Problem is OKW doesn't really need them to stay competitive, you can spam Volks + raken + ISG until getting your heavies and win the game.
I remember someone saying at the beginning Volks reinforcement cost was design to increase with their veterancy. It was probably not manageable. |
The doctrine is great but there is nothing OP in it. Axis people doesn't like it because it counter well the usual turtling Axis playstyle.
The problem is more about Reco and mechanized doctrines that are half-3/4 useless. It is a bit incredible when you think they are "rare" doctrines. |
Im not saying it needs to be go to 100% of the time im saying it needs to be worth it to tank your eco.
And a vet 3 tiger is not worth tanking your eco.
Remove the eco penalty and add a 230 fuel cost to it hell make it 280 its fine then. Its a real choice then commander wise not straight worse then spearhead.
Would make the commander useless as hell (note that I'm not against).
1) You need fuel in quantity if you decide to spam Vet3 squad fast in the game. Which delay far far away your Potential TA costing fuel
2) You need fuel in quantity if you decide to go T3 Spam (Ostwind/Stug/Pz4) to prepare the coming of your TA.
3) You need fuel in quantity if you decide to do a mix Vetup/T3 (vetup 1 mg + 1 mortar and use the advantage to bleed your opponent and rush T3)
Conclusion: to pop your super TA, you keep all your fuel, don't vetup, don't build any vehicle, just to wait the possibility to unlock it. Not to say 80% of the time you have already lost before. |
The unit is really useful now with the mid game meta. It counter everything on the field at the moment it popup + being extremely resilient to its own counter + let you skip T3 to rush T4. If I had to choose how to reduce its presence, I would make the aura an ability costing ammo with CD. Bringing a bit more decision making in it. |
It does because of server delay.
Shreck squad could simply walk slower to make shreck blob useless vs any vehicle. |
Infantry Company of heroes 2. 0cp sandbags and mines for Riflemen. Mortar halftrack that performs close to the Ostheer one ( + fuse barage rek OKW buildings), double LMG riflemen vet3 .
But all this does not matter because Soviet will be strongest by far in 1v1. The ability to get T1 and T2 up for free (almost) is amazing.
Armor, Inf, Rifle doctrines meta. I'll also give a try to Para since Thompson are now downgrading your mid-long native dps anymore. |
You bring all the arguments and "proofs" but you say nothing about brits. You give me examples from Soviet and USF armies when 90% of allied players are playing the brits. And in 2v2s if not both players are brits, one is for sure. Early game axis will be kept at bay and pinned down with constant atacks without being capable to retake teritorry due to british emplacements then in lategame it will be totally obliterated by churchills. Nobody complicates his life with other british tanks. Why would they do so, as long as churchill = map dominance?
In a game that puts accent on MICRO, british have what? Emplacements. So much micro for those. Oh, and indestructible emplacements too. It's almost like build and forget.
In my lates 2v2 game last night, do you know what it took to win against 2 brits in terms of armor? 2 KTs, one jagdpanzer, one Tiger 3 stugs and one ostwind. All in the same time on the map. Just because they had some churchills. 'Da fuq? We brought them at 4 tickets and we almost lost it, too. We won by chance, stealling VP. I am 100% positive that if it was to calculate the amount of resources spent by each side to build that kind of army, Axis costs would make your eyes jump from their places. Not Allied case, of course.
Don't tell me Brit dominate you early to mid game. You almost won till they took back Vps and you had to use your late game unit to close the deal. Whaoooou! incredible, play more double USF or Sov/USF and you'll see what you experienced last game isn't unusual.
You are getting mad because you can't win easily as before? Bear with it. You don't want to play vs brit anymore, switch Sov or USF with your mate. Problem is you'll experience the exact same situation you described more than often, too bad. |
You are wrong, because nothing changed for Axis, but only for Allied, and for the best. Until now, both axis factions were conceived to be stronger in lategame - overall. If they held ground early game, slowly in lategame the balance would turn on their side. Now, what do we have? In multiplayer, a combo of 2 factions, one (USF or soviets) verry agresive in the startgame, pinning axis factions (the other team) with the help of british faction which consolidates behind using emplacements. Then, the lategame belongs to allied too, through heavy armor and off maps brought by british. So where will axis factions have the advantage nowadays? All the advantages are in allied's favor and only a hardcore fanboy cannot see such an obvious thing.
Also, the majority of playerbase can agree that until british faction launch, the game was in its best state of balance until now, while at the moment, the balance is badly screwed due to reasons stated above.
T0 MG42 and Sturm cost lowered, 222 and sniper, stug TWP and Pz4 stock aren't arguments but facts. Today MG42s dictate early game with double sturm start, nothing t0 Allied side can counter them frontally. 222 have made disappear the m20 and USF T1 and made T1 sov much more uncertain. T34 is relegated to T4 and Shermans arrive long after the Pz4 and so Stugs. Save from Sov M5 being somewhat OP and people whining about Su-75 because they need to micro facing it, there is nothing left from Allied early dominance until late game. |
Oh really? I dunno mate, but you can be not even half as cockie with Tiger/KT as you can do it with churchill, crocodile or not. Brainlessly walk trhough opponent's line and whipe everything because nothing can really touch it except PAK 43, wow, yeah, I have the counter, I should only play with that toy isn't it?
While british player can move around the map unpunnished his churchill due to the Huuuuge health quantity I have to constantly shit my pants with my Tiger and never let him without some pak 40 bodyguards or I will lose it in no time.
Tell that to people who don't use stugs. I adapted and use them but they are far from enough. One stug plus 2 pak40s cannot hold against one single churchill. What are we talking about?
Not saying it's not counterable. Everything is. What it does it's OP.
I wish you good luck in reaching Jagdiger and winning with. Pro tip: if you wanna cost effectiveness and efficiency with OKW against heavy armor, there is but one solution: PAK 43. And thanks for condemning me to play with just one doctrine, when the actual british meta in multiplayer is like: bofors+bofors+churchill+ (maybe) another churchill = easy victory.
Give it even bigger range, supression, I couldn't care less but make it more fragile and not instawiping infantry ffs.
I have stop many Churchill with 2 stugs + Pak in support, TWP is appreciable in the operation so you must vet them fast. Now killing a Churchill is another matter, but it is exactly the same principle than with KT/TA, you keep them heavily damaged far from the front line until you get the opportunity to kill them.
And a Churchill that move freely on the map is a churchill that didn't encounter a mine and I want to see your replay 2 stugs + 2 Paks not holding a single Churchill.
Before Brit, Axis had the best overall heavy tanks and I didn't remember people crying so loudly because of this balance design . Sov have their IS2 and USF only complain was to at least have one equivalent to the Tiger.
Now the balance design is switch and Allied have access to better heavy armor with Brit, while Axis have better early and mid options. So far, the only faction left behind is USF which still have no late game units, and lost almost all its early advantage.
Now Playing vs or with brit is boring actually because of the spam emplacement meta. Brit is what made me stop playing vcoh in 2vs2 or above. It will probably be the same for coh2. |
I'm still trying to figure out how a Soviet player, with Conscripts, Maxims, mortars, and the ZiS in T2 is not overpowered, but an Ostheer player with access to Grenadiers, MG42s, mortars, and the PaK is clearly imbalanced.
I'm not advocating that the PaK get moved to T1 - I don't want to see the change made - but there are definitely some logical fallacies getting thrown about here.
Also -
Yes, except it's also much worse against infantry. That's like saying a T-34 is better than a Katyusha because tanks kill mobile artillery.
Maybe because except for the Cons, all what you quote is actually part of SovT2?
Actually moving Pak to T1 would make Ostheer the only faction who can skip a Tier without drawback. |