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I had a simpliest idea to implement. Make JT and Elefant impossible to repair (and disable engine damage on them) OR make the reparation cost between 1/3 and 1/2 of their initial price.
So each shot piercing them would actually be relevant. Losing two jackson but failing to destroy a JT leaving it 10% life would be much more balance because the next round the JT would stay at 10% life and force the player to call a new one full price OR repairing it would have cost manpower and fuel to the Axis player.
At the end, axis players would not call them like no-brainer all the time and actually use other doctrines.
Note that this solution can be implemented for the ISU as well once buffed to a relevant status. |
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Who's going for captain tier now?
Still cost 60 fuel and the M15 still 50 fuel so it cost 10 fuel more than when it was associated to the lieutenant.
Recap about the M15
Worst killing value of all half-tracks
Worst suppression value of all half-tracks
Dies in two shots but doesn't have access to smoke.
Now I suppose the main idea is to test how OP is T1 with Stuart.
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Im aware of king of the hill, seeing as how i played in it.
Dave already made frequent use of paras, and he held rank 1 with usf pretty consistently but not too many people adopted his strategy. His build was a little too prone to being punished and required a more specific style in order to pull off. While i generally agree top players usually look towards the absolute best players for their builds, i think that some strategies are too specific to be adopted by other players. Then again, that isnt even the main point youre trying to make, so just consider this just some of my ramblings.
The ultimate point is there is no reason for you to be against USF weapons to be field upgrades. Your argument of being a TOP 1vs1 USF players is not valid since it would be exactly the same for you while improving USF gameplay on teamgame.
I suspect that your answer and little speech on TOP1vs1 vs TOP teamplayer had more to do with the poster than the topic itself looking at past discussions between the two of you. |
I never said that something that isnt used should be removed, i dont think you could even argue that i so much as implied it. He said skilled players use forward ambulances, i proved otherwise with more evidence (anecdotal evidence is more evidence than he provided).
Also, i never said that balance should be based around what top players SAY, i more or less said thay it should be balanced around how top players PLAY. Arguing that balance shouldnt be based around the highest level of play because top players did not predict penals or the luchs being too strong would be balancing around what top players say, which isnt even what im suggesting. Balancing around the fact that top players heavily use penals and the luchs would be balancing around how they play, which IS what im suggesting.
Top players played the WBP before the patch goes live, we even had tournaments and one was called "King of the Hill" if I remember well.
TOP players are following what the best of the top use to play. As you say, everybody use the Armor doctrine because DevM used it with success. If tomorrow DevM comes with a new strat around Tier3 and Paratroopers, everyone will follow him. |
You keep making the argument about 1v1s though. You said skilled players use the ambulance on the field. I disproved that statement by saying that basically all of the skilled players (who are almost all entirely 1v1 players) clearly dont. Outside of 1v1 you dont really see armor company, but you also dont really see skilled players outside of 1v1 either. There are decent players in 2v2s, sure, but hardly any of them play the game at a high enough level that they truly understand and utilize game mechanics, and the game (in my opinion) shouldnt be balanced around people not effectively playing the game.
I'm sorry but I fail to see the logic behind what you say. Because you don't need it so it shouldn't be on the game.
If I understand you well, because all USF skilled players do not use USF tier3, this mean we could remove it from the game, after all skilled players do not need sherman, jackson or Scott, you never see them teching Tier3. And even, to be more realistic, so even if we keep the USF tier3 in the game. We could simply remove the ambulance and the Major FRP ability because a simple base healing aura do the same job and since top skilled USF players do not use the FRP, it has no value in game.
Your statement about balance being only made around top player has a big flaw. Top players didn't see Penal being that's strong with the last patch while the modding team have exclusively listen them. They didn't see the Luch becoming such a wiping machine as well as OKW being so strong in all stages of the game, they were pretty much saying the opposite. They didn't say a word about the Kubel raping USF early game while they are now fully agreeing on this problem.
The maxim was also fine for top players... |
Luchs has no AT capability. And all allied light tanks (AEC, Stuart and T70) will always win vs a luchs
Nop, if a Luch can't win by itself vs AEC/Stuart and T70, you cannot lose vs them if you keep your distance and stay close to your raketen or volks. Stuart and T70 take ages to take a Luch down, the AEC is better in this role.
If the Luch is seen as OP, it is mostly due because it rapes infantry and OKW having access to Raketen and HMG34 per default + the PUMA from the same building to support it.
Put the HMG34 and Raketen out of the HQ (onto T1) and I'm pretty sure you'll see far less Luch. |
I assumed major was implied since soft retreating to a forward ambulance is even rarer than seeing major not only teched, but also used for a forward retreat point. The point still stands, most skilled players that I know of and played against soft retreat to forward ambulances very rarely and only in fringe cases, if ever. You can definitely find examples of it, but since people like throwing around their playercard/ranks to prove a point, I'll tell you now that the absolute highest ranking players (which the automatch system considers me equal to) rarely soft retreat to forward ambulances against me. And its doubtful that they do that against other players either.
Most of 1vs1 maps are small enough to not use the ambulance on the field, this is true. But I have seen many good USF players using the ambulance to reinforce unit anywhere on 1vs1. I have even seen good USF players using the ambulance to cap points early on. So this is maybe not the case anymore today, but some years ago it was.
On 2vs2, using the ambulance on the field is like mandatory if you want to survive and win the game. Soft retreat is really important to learn to manage.
Now, if you think it doesn't bring much to you doesn't mean it is not relevant.
I have the feeling weapon rack has always been a way to mitigate USF early game dominance. The faction has been design around the ambulance, the only mobile healing and reinforcing platform in the game. So to avoid USF to put too much pressure they decided to put some drawback.
1- The ambulance being the crappiest on wheel unit ever.
2- USF infantry has to retreat to their base to pick up weapons.
The way USF have lost their early game advantage over Ostheer and OKW should be also compensate by giving USF infantry the same tools to stay on the field. |
Skilled players like who? I never use major retreat point (if youre willing to call me a skilled player). Basically every top 10 or even top 20 usf player (devm being the quintessential example), goes armor company and never techs major (no forward retreat point, which means they do end up going back to their base). I struggle to see where that claim even comes from. The fact that you claim this is how "usf should be," suggests to me that you think factions should be balanced around YOUR perception of how the game is/should be, even if game trends and the habits of top players undermine or disprove your views.
I think you miss read what he wrote. He never mentioned the Major, he said he used the ambulance to reinforce on the field which probably mean using soft retreat and avoiding at all cost to retreat to your base. |
Are you retarded? USF can already equip every weapon on every unit so whats the big deal if they can do it on field with a delay instead of instant from weapon racks?
He is retarded, just ignore him. |
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On 1vs1, Ostheer simply does not need to build a panther, being good or bad isn't the problem. At the moment you can build a panther you already have enough AT firepower on the field.
At this level, the OKW panther, which is better in all aspects is facing the exact same problem. Even if it is better on the AI department, that's a big investment for almost nothing valuable. Better to call a Pz4 and a jagpanzer4 to cover both AI and AT aspect covered with dual raketen.
I can't really remember having lost a game vs OKW player because he built a panther and like the unit shifted the balance of power in his favor. Game that was already lost before by me that doesn't count.
OKW command panther is seen in a lot of game because you don't need T3 to call it, that's 120 fuel less to call it faster but if it is good to counter M4c spam strat, that's more or less all.
I see a lot of command panther when I dominate my opponent and as a last resort he call the command panther. Here again, it doesn't help him that much, I can't really remember a game where a Command Panther shifted the game flow from my advantage to his advantage and victory.
Now, as Ostheer player, I'll say the biggest offender to the panther is UKF. And this (stupidly) is as per design.
The panther is design around a big armor value so it can spearhead or flank to deal damage and then retreat. Its other stats are dependent from this armor value. The biggest it is the lowest other stats are.
UKF is design around a lack of snare, to balance this lack they have biggest pen value so if they can't snare you, at least they can hurt more and more reliably.
This design is simply a natural hard counter to how the panther is design. |
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