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I don't use the tact map, instead I find myself clicking the squad portraits on the top right to jump to a specific unit or reinforce. Jumping to the retreat point (ambulance) to reinforce everything in the area is something I frequently do. Use F1-F4 hotkeys to build units is a lifesaver too. Brits get F4 for Forward Assembly and OKW get F2 for medic truck which is awesome. I wish I could bind my Ambu to F6 or something.
I have map scroll speed set to very high, something I brought over from when I played Starcraft 2. That way you don't have to move your mouse to the edges as much. For small map adjustments, I use MMB to readjust.
I use default hotkeys too since I'm used to T retreat and R to reinforce. Never got used to grid hotkeys in SC2. I used default hotkeys in Dawn of War 2 too.
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First thing is first, IS needs to have snare. It was justified since they had way better AI than any other mainline infantry back then. But it's not anymore. It NEEDS TO HAVE snare.
Give stock average mortar. Delete emplacement in return. I don't care.
IF IS can't get snare for some reason, buff on AEC is needed.
Rollback repair speed of heavy sapper. Churchill is not an option after it's pop can nerf & sapper's repair speed nerf.
Buff Churchill's pop cap. Buff on Comet in terms of AI would be nice(but not likely to happen)
I'd say FF is good enough if it gets it's turret rotation & mobility buff. And AFAIK, it is on the patch log of upcoming commander patch.
Don't get me wrong here. I used to play UKF since CoH1, and it was my main faction. I just don't play it anymore because it's not playable faction at current balance. Just look at the stat from coh2stat.com or ML5.
I definitely agree that Infantry Section need snares since its been hit with consecutive nerfs with the recent patches but something must be done about double bren IS in return. I'm not quite sure regarding the other changes since I rarely see Churchill and Anvil tactics used in team games. The Comet felt better when it didn't have a projectile.
The mobility buff on Firefly is a great start but I don't think its enough. The Firefly as a tank itself doesn't feel great to use. When you spend 145F on a tank, it should feel powerful and it should do the job that its assigned to. Like the E8, the Firefly isn't that great in both regards. Its slow and clunky with an annoying gimmick. IMO it would be far better to use if it was more reliable (slight main gun buff) in addition to the slight mobility buff.
I doubt any changes would affect its match ups either since Brits are sitting at a fairly low win-rate across all game modes. Anyone can attest that it has trouble in large game modes because of their inability to counter Panther spam and heavy tanks. Sure anti-tank guns are great but ATGs and Fireflies are simply awful at countering Panther spam due to its low mobility and slow fire rate. A Panther can simply reverse out of a Fireflys range and be completely safe.
Simply surviving with a Panther is getting value while surviving with a Firefly is not getting value. You're getting value by neutralizing a threat but you're still taking damage and losing units in return. Its very hard to get value with the Firefly. |
Oh you were talking about the 200/240 dmg of FF. Okay I see that. We still need to see how FF works after commander patch (since some buff on turret rotation/mobility will be there AFAIK), because the most problematic part of FF I believe is it's low mobility & turret rotation speed. but I would pick Jackson over FF in most situations with current(pre-commander patch) stat. However, I have not know that it gets better mid distance(45). That a bit explains why it has less pen. Still means doing low pen on 45~60, but anyway... As I've mentioned earlier. FF isn't the basic problem UKF is having right now...
Thanks for the info.
What would you say is the problem for Brits?
I'm speaking strictly from a team games perspective. The firefly is really lacking compared to other TD options and doesn't perform well for its cost. As you've mentioned, its not mobile enough to respond to threats especially massed Panther pushes on a single lane. The slow turret rotation doesn't help its case either. I hate the tulip rocket gimmick and wish it could be balanced and replaced with a flat stat buff to make it more reliable vs gimmicky.
As I've mentioned in other threads. I really want to 'fix' how easy it is to get value with Panthers without actually nerfing them. There needs to be stronger counters to the Panther while the Panther retains its great AI and AT potential for its cost. A more mobile Firefly, I believe would be a great start. |
It has the worst penetration of all Allied TDs so no it doesn't have "great pen".
To clarify on this. It has the worst far pen sitting at 210 when the normal is 220. Max range is where most of the action happens so having lower far pen hurts a lot especially on a slow reload, high alpha gun. |
The firefly is fine. You’re comparing the panther which is 185F to the 145F firefly. Of course it’s going to lose in a 1v1. Put it behind sappers and mines and supporting armor/at guns. Panthers can’t dive if you prep for the dive.
Firefly can get a survivability buff when it loses the ability to 11second combo any 640hp medium. The fact that it can bounce P4 rounds with the same chance as a Sherman medium is dumb enough.
I wouldn't mind if the tulip rockets went away. The meta of team games has less focus on mediums and more focus on heavier tanks like Panther and TDs to counter them.
In terms of cost, normally I would say that a 145 fuel tank should not be able to 1v1 an 185 fuel tank however the firefly's specific role is to counter said 185 fuel tank but does a poor job at it. Fuel costs aside, the Firefly has similar amount of MP investment and the additional muni investment which I would argue puts its 'cost' on similar levels.
I want to stress that I don't believe the Firefly should be able to 1v1 a Panther. Rather than Firefly should have more punch or survivability specifically to prevent the Panther (the tank its supposed to counter) from easily gaining value by diving the Firefly.
The scenario that you described has a much higher cost for defending a Firefly than simply fielding a Panther. Its not a good unit if you need to put in a lot of investment for defending it especially if it doesn't pay off all that well. Simply put: The Firefly has low value for its cost while Panther has better value. Putting the Firefly player on the 'back foot' so to speak is not exactly my idea of thrilling game play either. |
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If the blob is tightly clumped, grenades are also a good counter. Usually players will have the blob in a single control group so if they want to dodge a grenade they will move all units. Giving you lots of time to keep shooting them or move into cover.
Blob vs blob is a thing too but dangerous.
Personally if I see someone blob. I always grenade it no matter what. They can't dodge it everytime. Notice how they move their blob with your first grenade. Do they move forwards or back? If they move forwards, throw the grenade forwards infront of the blob next time.
Its stuff like this that can really punish the blob. Even if it may seem that players can easily move out of grenades, that is not always the case. If you never throw grenades, you will never succeed. If you keep throwing grenades, you will wear them down eventually.
The other suggestions in this thread are pretty good too. I like to keep a pack howi around if I know there will be blobs. The auto-fire doesn't wipe like it used to but it will still put a lot of damage on the squad and make it easier to drop models with your squads. |
I'm curious, is it possible to introduce a dmg modifier to proc when hitting rear armor? Not available for all vehicles but specific ones.
In that way i think you could create and really differentiate the "flanker" type of tanks by giving them a proper niche.
That's an awesome idea! Diving and flanking units is a high risk but relatively low reward prospect. This would increase the reward without shaking up the risk part. |
I actually miss the days of when Firefly was good.
I still the core issue of 4v4s right now is the dominance of Panthers and the weak power of counters to them. They trade too well with tanks that are supposed to counter them. I think Firefly could be better for the high cost you have to sink into it.
I've made a thread here discussing the Firefly and preferably getting a buff to them: https://www.coh2.org/topic/108449/firefly-is-too-weak
I think a buff to the firefly would give UKF a late-game option to fight against Panther spam and would generally make 4v4s more tolerable. UKF are already great with Comet/Churchill late game but giving the option of Firefly as a good mobile counter to Panthers would balance it even better.
Just my thoughts.
I do not support nerfing the Panther in any way. I think its a great tank but I think the counters to this great tank are not good enough. |
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I think the Firefly is too weak in team games. Does anyone else feel the same way? Its great if you have muni but otherwise not so great without muni.
With a single firefly, 1v1 its pretty easy to dive with a Panther especially since infantry section does not have tank snare. Even with tulip rockets, you will at best, get 2 shots off and 2 tulip rocket hits for about 50% of the Panther's HP. Its not exactly enough to stop it and is a huge investment for what could be a Panther retreating. Not a great trade but the alternative is your firefly dying. If tulip rockets are not available then the Panther pretty much bullies the firefly. The slow acceleration on a vet 0 firefly doesn't help it either.
Anytime I play UKF, I find myself having to babysit the Firefly with an anti-tank gun or royal engis, just in case any Panthers decide to dive it. It doesn't feel safe unless its sitting securely in a minefield as well. It just might be in my mind but the firefly feels equivalent to a rocket truck rather than a TD. Its too fragile and could use some buffs to help it deal with Panther dives without help.
I understand that the firefly must be 'weak' because it can sit behind units like the Comet and Churchill and deal damage. My argument for this is this is already a high cost/high fuel combo and should not be considered because it's no different from other heavy/TD combos. The firefly feels the weakest out of all TDs especially in terms of cost/performance ratio. You don't get good performance for the cost. In addition, the unit costs so much to power-up while not being all that great. Its a high value unit that doesn't perform well for its cost because it requires additional cost to be put into it (tulip rockets) and I hate that.
Some buff ideas (Mix and match and choose 2):
- Remove tulip rockets for faster attack speed on the main gun.
- Alternately, all fireflys should come with tulip rockets as a default upgrade. Losing a firefly with both commander and tulip rocket upgrade is devastating and quite easy against a Panther.
- Faster acceleration especially in reverse. Vet 1 should be the baseline, with a new vet 1 bonus providing a better mobility upgrade.
- Better pen. Why better pen? The firefly shoots slow already, any bounce shots is devastating for a tank that is supposed to counter heavy armour. Remove 40 damage if you must, reliability is more important over alpha damage.
- Increase the durability of the firefly and decrease repair times similar to KV-1. The firefly is prone to damage and the long repair/downtime does not help its case.
- Lower the cost. Fuel is not as important as the high MP cost. The firefly already costs a lot of munitions to power up, not to mention any supporting troops required to babysit it. Again, I cannot stress it enough. The firefly is very bad value for its cost.
- Remove vet 3 +40 damage upgrade for a flat mobility increase. Alpha strike is not more important than survivability. At vet 3 firefly should be hard to kill, not something you can dive with 2 Panthers.
- Add a 'Blitz' like ability to it. Having a speed boost while disabling the main gun would help this tank immensely. Simply having an ability to help keep your high value firefly alive would be greatly appreciated. Like War speed but not requiring royal engi setup.
- Remove the on-use cost of tulip rockets. Instead make it something that Royal Engis have to load it on like war speed. |
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If the E8 changes stay as they are, I predict a meta where people will use the Jackson to vet up the vehicle crew and then swap crews from Jackson to E8 to take advantage of Focused Gunnery (at Vet1).
Late-game, replacing the E8 doesn't really seem worthwhile if you have to vet it up for Focused Gunnery. Its great that it has lower cost now and an option to fight heavier tanks but its worth considering just making Focused Gunnery a flat stat boost at vet 0 and adding something like Blitz or Flanking Speed to vet 1 instead. That includes the -speed, -rotation, -acceleration rate, along with +range and +pen at vet 0. Vet 1, it can get slightly more responsive and blitz/flanking speed for when you need the speed.
If I, as a USF player, had to vet up on my E8 to make it better vs heavies then I would probably just use a Jackson crew since Jacksons vet up fairly quickly. Or swapping my AAHT squad. If I don't have a squad to swap out then I simply would choose not to buy the E8 especially if there are already heavies on the field. Jackson seems like a better choice in this regard.
Speaking strictly from a team games perspective.
Right now, it feels like focused gunnery isn't something you turn off once you get it especially with the delay. The decreased stats don't feel all that bad for the benefits. I only ever need the speed in short bursts at a time which doesn't make me feel like I want to turn it off, ever. It would be much better with just a blitz ability. |
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