Someone tell me the story about kubel and relic studios
When they first buffed the kubel it was super cheap and super good. Everyone started spamming them. The Relic employee Breaking Brad played a match against some guy and spammed 4 kubels and base pinned him in 2 minutes. Then there was some banter about how kubel was OP, and the guy posted the replay here. Then there was some butthurt, the guy was getting mad, and Brad said some sarcastic comments (that were pretty funny from an outsider) and Relic didn't take to kindly to one of their employees antagonizing their customers.
#FreeBrad #BradLife #Justice4Brad |
Oi. 
Whachu gonna do, bruv?  |
It's interesting how fast the community goes from 8==D  to |
Thread: Penals22 Sep 2015, 16:52 PM
I'd prefer to see a massive buff and a price increase to make them more like a stock elite troop for the soviets. Enough so that they would function sort of like if shocks and guards had a baby. This would really open up some of the other soviet commanders that don't have call-in infantry. It would also give t1 more of a role as the infantry/assault tier compared to the t2 support tier. |
Look, if you want to remove 1 click wipe abilites, I am all for it, but don't do it one ability at a time then. Right now relic has shown that it does not want to remove such abilities, so we are forced to have this discussion.
It's literally the most expensive non vehicle commander ability in the game. You better make it worth its cost. Is it too strong? Maybe, but what would you actually do, with a final commander ability ,that doesn't even kill hqs. Likewise, what would you do with a stuka that doesn't decrew howitzers? If you want to play the nerf game, don't be surprised when assault grens take 50 years to kill a conscript squad in red cover, because you couldn't react fast enough to retreat was "bad".
Back to the ability. It has a long delay, shows you exactly the radius where it will fuck your shit up and is expensive like cigarettes in scandinavia.
You can't throw the word counterplay everywhere, because some things should be countered by making the ability not effective before it hit.
Should mines be visible to every unit since they are a counter to tanks?
If I make a kv8, the counterplay was to not make 0 AT units. If I have a pak the counter is to not let your vehicle stand still in it's firing arch.
IF I MAKE A MISTAKE, I SHOULD NOT BLAME "NO COUNTERPLAY". A COUNTER SHOULD BE A COUNTER
Just like people complained about TANK DESTROYERS giving A TIGER a hard time as a justification for making it better vs its counters.
Scott still gets 1 shot by jagd and elefant, noone cares, but god forbid if the kubel dies to 1 at gun shot.
And if the stuka diving bomb is fine, then this ability is fine. Stuka bomb doesn't give any minimap warning, no flares and the only thing that will give you enough time to retreat your shit is to check every squad all the time for that stupid noise, it also doesn't need to be a nuke since allies have nothing comparable to OKW bases. Let's not even count in the fact that most commanders with the stuka bomb have a recon ability too.
The air raid operation is the counter to clumped up building and defensive positions and if you want to talk about 1 click magical buttons, I would say that there exist way worse offenders for that title, than a 325 ammo nuke at 12 cps
Is this a joke? You are seriously comparing blowing up tech structures to walking over mines with infantry? What the fuck are you even talking about in half this post, these are all comparisons that have nothing to do with this.
You admitted right here
Look, if you want to remove 1 click wipe abilites, I am all for it, but don't do it one ability at a time then.
that this ability is a problem, but you don't want to fix it because other problems exist too? What kind of logic is that? At least with a stuka bomb strike you can dodge it if you move your infantry or retreat, you can't retreat a tech building. |
If making the enemy spend 325 munitions on your hq that costs a bit of mp and fuel isn't a good deal then I don't know what is.
Inb4 it takes out multiple at once, so does a stuka bomb on my squads in my base. The counterplay is to not clump your hqs so close. Like seriously the guy just spent 325 muni on your hq that has existed for like 20 minutes and gave you a local advantage, what's the problem?
You should be happy he didn't pick the croc commander
Then the cost needs to be lowered as well with the damage if you think that way. The concept that it can one shot wipe tech structures is bad from a gameplay standpoint.
Forcing all the infantry and vehicles away from the tech building and heavily damaging it is a great use for the ability. It allows some counter play as the OKW player is forced to pull out and come back quickly before the allies finish off the base. Abilities that do so much damage with little actual effort besides their cost are terrible for gameplay, that's why everybody hates playaing against CAS and the like. It is not rewarding for the allied player because they din't have to put in any effort besides not spending munitions, and it is frustrating for the OKW player because they can do nothing to protect themselves except for gimping themselves in the rest of the game by building in base. |
Just give OKW truck brace (during which they cant function) if it such a big problem for them. Then buff Brit emplacements health to the level of OKW trucks.
Win/Win
It would make both way to strong, I do not want to face the hell that is OKW trucks with brace. They just need to use the new target tables to reduce the damage to the bases. |
Vet 5, cheapest teching, low cost for some upgrades. These are pros for the lower income.
Putting med far away from base leads to huge amount of advantages over enemy.
And those advantages must come with sime disadvantages which is possibility of losing trucks.
I mean, if you lock down sector with schwerer and force enemy to fight for his side while your is peacful and secure, it's fine for you because they can't cap and the game is on my terms.
But if there are some late game, powerful abilities to deny Schwerer, which locked down sector for you, for over 20mins of providing huge advantage, then suddenly it's not OK?
It's not okay because it is such an easy point and click ability that has no counter play. This isn't a game about saving resources to nuke your enemy away, there is no strategic depth to this. I am not arguing that trucks shouldn't be killable ffs, but it is ridiculous to expect such an easy way to cripple your enemy. The trucks are strong and and a huge loss if they get destroyed, there needs to be some actual tactics involved in dealing with them besides saving munis for 12 command points and deleting them. |
So I ask again.
Advantages of Schwerer + Med are enormous. Fast healing, short retreat path, you can get faster on the field, misteakes are not that punishing since there is FRP, locking down whole area for long long time with Schwerer.
These are pros, and every pros should be aligned with cons.
So what are cons? I find only 1. Be able to kill them. Longer game lasts, more option to do that.
And second thing, what are others ways for Brits to kill Trucks before late game?
No mortars, no arty shit arty, hardly with AT guns since 2 leigs are current meta.
Only late game heavy push is able to do that but it can be easily countered back.
The cons are the whole faction design. These aren't just some units or upgrades, these are core parts of the faction. The cons are the weaknesses of the faction; the lack of core units like snipers, non doctrinal machine guns, long range artillery, caches, reduced income, being completely reliant on the medic truck for healing and reinforcing, etc.
Brits not being able to properly deal with them through indirect fire is a problem with the British faction, not the trucks. Once Relic makes the big changes necessary to deal with how shitty the Brits are right now they will have options. Right now the Brits are relying on a few OP crutch units while have the rest of the faction being pretty lackluster. The rest of the British units need to be brought up to snuff so they don't have to rely on these crutch units, which are terrible from a gameplay perspective. |
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I can't believe people are actually defending the ability to obliterate OKW trucks with this. Now I hate OKW as much as the next guy, but you can't think it is fair to just delete a core teching structure from the game just because you saved up an expensive amount of munitions. I am completely fine with the damage and area this ability can lay waste to as long as it is not a almost guaranteed kill on their tech structures.
This is not some risk/reward argument, there is no counterplay to this. Starting every match against a British player who has commandos equipped (so all of the Brit matches) resigning that you will probably lose your tech buildings unless you put them in the base is not compelling strategic depth. It is not fair to shut down an entire core concept that a faction is designed for just because you saved up a bunch of munitions.
Some of you are making the argument that because Brit emplacements can be killed easier, then this is justified. The difference is that they are not essential tech buildings where you build your units from. It's ridiculous to lock somebody out of building their top tier units from a single off map. These trucks are designed to be difficult to destroy because OKW is so severely crippled if they are. The ease with which this ability allows you to do it is inherently bad for gameplay and requires the damage to the trucks to be toned down. |
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