Shrecks. Blobbing in 2v2s and above

wtf are u talking about, everyone has to tech for high armoured units, and bazookas tend to be VERY good vs anything below the panther, which is majority of axis vehicles. The only faction that has a right to cry is USF because of ther low armour but UKF has high armoured tanks where bazookas wont do sht, and in fact you can use doctrines as a reason for soviets because most of ther doctrines gives them access to very good tanks, soviets doctrines are unique in that regard then to every other faction. (when soviets where originally designed the faction play style was designed to be relied on what doctrine u chose which is why they have some of the best and most useful doctrines).

are you claiming allies don't have good mobile AT inf too? what makes them just as dangerous is the ability to snare. Look, in order to get double shreks for example, they come on an expensive squad 4 man squad or for OKW in 2 doc's, while for e.g. uSF can equip riflemen squad with X2 bazookas WITH snare or put it on a dirt cheap rear echleon squad, no doc;s required. UKF can do them same on engineers with snare. ALL factions can have powerful inf AT, however, which is better is situational but one thing clearly going for allies is the accessibility.

You are misunderstanding. Of the allies only brits have high armored units stock. Soviet and usf have to pick a doctrine for them. They ARE in the highest tiers but are not stock. In contrast Ost has panther and brum who are pretty beefy and the p4 with skirts is tough too, all 3 able to bounce Shreks, piats and zooks if RNG allows. Okw has light vehcles and armour with 230+ no in between. Same story.

UKF have Churchill and comets but that's it for all allied stock armour with over 230 value.

wtf are u talking about, everyone has to tech for high armoured units, and bazookas tend to be VERY good vs anything below the panther, which is majority of axis vehicles. The only faction that has a right to cry is USF because of ther low armour but UKF has high armoured tanks where bazookas wont do sht, and in fact you can use doctrines as a reason for soviets because most of ther doctrines gives them access to very good tanks, soviets doctrines are unique in that regard then to every other faction. (when soviets where originally designed the faction play style was designed to be relied on what doctrine u chose which is why they have some of the best and most useful doctrines).

are you claiming allies don't have good mobile AT inf too? what makes them just as dangerous is the ability to snare. Look, in order to get double shreks for example, they come on an expensive squad 4 man squad or for OKW in 2 doc's, while for e.g. uSF can equip riflemen squad with X2 bazookas WITH snare or put it on a dirt cheap rear echleon squad, no doc;s required. UKF can do them same on engineers with snare. ALL factions can have powerful inf AT, however, which is better is situational but one thing clearly going for allies is the accessibility.

Definitely truth told about who has definitely better accessibility to snares and mobile AT inf at the same time.

There is truly no better combination that qualifies it as a better faction (Allies) to use for mobile AT with snares.

Axis does not even have any real proper unit for mobile AT except Pzgrens (ignoring Pzfusiliers since its doctrinal, factions needs to have a qualifying default one in order to make them proper rather than it being locked up) the only unit available in axis which are useful but they are less survivable.

Personally if I had to choose which factions to use proper mobile AT units, it is definitely the Allies.

Nothing beats snares in combination with handheld AT since that would have definitely a bigger overall effect in contrast to only having Schrecks, lol.

You are misunderstanding. Of the allies only brits have high armored units stock. Soviet and usf have to pick a doctrine for them. They ARE in the highest tiers but are not stock. In contrast Ost has panther and brum who are pretty beefy and the p4 with skirts is tough too, all 3 able to bounce Shreks, piats and zooks if RNG allows. Okw has light vehcles and armour with 230+ no in between. Same story.

UKF have Churchill and comets but that's it for all allied stock armour with over 230 value.

so then why do brits have access to ease of access to piats, and be able to have them on squad with snares then?. and when it comes to soviets, EVERY GAME YOU WILL EITHER HAVE ACCESS TO t3-85, is2, kv2 or isu152 because they have so many doctrines with tanks you cant just ignore soviets your being stupidly biased. Panthers cant do shit vs bazookas and bazooka blobs will destroy a panther if it gets its snare off. lol armour skirts xD bazooka blobs still wreck and pazner iv even at vet 2.

Majority of games the most common tanks used by axis players are counter by bazookas, which is why people still blob with PTRS's, BAzookas,etc. ask yourself why is that the case?. I personally think any squad that can have AT guns shouldn't be able to snare, and shreks should be nerfed to bazooka levels

wtf are u talking about, everyone has to tech for high armoured units, and bazookas tend to be VERY good vs anything below the panther, which is majority of axis vehicles. The only faction that has a right to cry is USF because of ther low armour but UKF has high armoured tanks where bazookas wont do sht, and in fact you can use doctrines as a reason for soviets because most of ther doctrines gives them access to very good tanks, soviets doctrines are unique in that regard then to every other faction. (when soviets where originally designed the faction play style was designed to be relied on what doctrine u chose which is why they have some of the best and most useful doctrines).

are you claiming allies don't have good mobile AT inf too? what makes them just as dangerous is the ability to snare. Look, in order to get double shreks for example, they come on an expensive squad 4 man squad or for OKW in 2 doc's, while for e.g. uSF can equip riflemen squad with X2 bazookas WITH snare or put it on a dirt cheap rear echleon squad, no doc;s required. UKF can do them same on engineers with snare. ALL factions can have powerful inf AT, however, which is better is situational but one thing clearly going for allies is the accessibility.

I never said allied at blobs are ineffective. I said axis armour has a easier time facing their blobs. Because their alpha damage is lower and chance to bounce is higher. And some of those squads, to my knowlidge 3 have snares next to their at weapon whem upgraded. Snares have a lot shorter range then the at weapons they carry.

Staying out of range of snares and bouncing at weapons because off higher armour hp or both is always easier and better then getting either completely destroyed or brought down to a sliver of health in mere seconds by a blob of hand held at. A snare is not even needed.

Soviets lack a reliable non doc counter or punish to such blobs imo. And forcing doctrines to counter such cheese is not an argument.

I never said allied at blobs are ineffective. I said axis armour has a easier time facing their blobs. Because their alpha damage is lower and chance to bounce is higher. And some of those squads, to my knowlidge 3 have snares next to their at weapon whem upgraded. Snares have a lot shorter range then the at weapons they carry.

Staying out of range of snares and bouncing at weapons because off higher armour hp or both is always easier and better then getting either completely destroyed or brought down to a sliver of health in mere seconds by a blob of hand held at. A snare is not even needed.

Soviets lack a reliable non doc counter or punish to such blobs imo. And forcing doctrines to counter such cheese is not an argument.

Yes, it has higher alpha damage but longer reload, therefore its a tradeoff, your simply picking and choosing what better, and no when u upgrade shreks the snare gets locked out (on pfussies), ther is no unit that can get shrek + snare.

If a tank is brought to low health (FAT IF, IF THE SHOTS ALL HIT) you can easily get away due to shrkes long reload. I never said in order to counter blobs, you need to go doctrine (why the held would u need to go tanks to counter AT inf lol), Soviets have access to non doc MG's and rocket ARTY to counter blobs. Soviets along with ostheer have the best options to counter blobs. USF and okw are worse against blobs.

so then why do brits have access to ease of access to piats, and be able to have them on squad with snares then?. and when it comes to soviets, EVERY GAME YOU WILL EITHER HAVE ACCESS TO t3-85, is2, kv2 or isu152 because they have so many doctrines with tanks you cant just ignore soviets your being stupidly biased. Panthers cant do shit vs bazookas and bazooka blobs will destroy a panther if it gets its snare off. lol armour skirts xD bazooka blobs still wreck and pazner iv even at vet 2.

Majority of games the most common tanks used by axis players are counter by bazookas, which is why people still blob with PTRS's, BAzookas,etc. ask yourself why is that the case?. I personally think any squad that can have AT guns shouldn't be able to snare, and shreks should be nerfed to bazooka levels

Nearly 1/3 Soviet commanders do NOT have a call in tank. When talking about STOCK capabilities you don't whine "but doctrinal" as it's possible to not have this options.
Rereading your post I'm not even sure what you are whining about at this point since you all over the place and not even responding to what I posted making it difficult to even formulate a reply that isn't as equally all over the place as your bitching.
FACT. Both axis factions have multiple units with more than 230 armour in their stock lineup
FACT. across the 3 allied factions there are only 2 stock units with more that 230 armour and they are mutually exclusive
FACT. The Shrek has more pen, enough to guarantee penetration on all allied stock vehicles minus the aforementioned and exclusive units
FACT. Zooks and piats are less effective per capita due to the higher armour of axis tanks
FACT. allied AT, while lower in reliability make up for that with saturation.

I don't know how else to spell it out for you...

Nearly 1/3 Soviet commanders do NOT have a call in tank. When talking about STOCK capabilities you don't whine "but doctrinal" as it's possible to not have this options.
Rereading your post I'm not even sure what you are whining about at this point since you all over the place and not even responding to what I posted making it difficult to even formulate a reply that isn't as equally all over the place as your bitching.
FACT. Both axis factions have multiple units with more than 230 armour in their stock lineup
FACT. across the 3 allied factions there are only 2 stock units with more that 230 armour and they are mutually exclusive
FACT. The Shrek has more pen, enough to guarantee penetration on all allied stock vehicles minus the aforementioned and exclusive units
FACT. Zooks and piats are less effective per capita due to the higher armour of axis tanks
FACT. allied AT, while lower in reliability make up for that with saturation.

I don't know how else to spell it out for you...

that statement would make sense if armor was free, if u pay for more armor then it's irrelevant as u will deal damage to more expensive unit

Nearly 1/3 Soviet commanders do NOT have a call in tank. When talking about STOCK capabilities you don't whine "but doctrinal" as it's possible to not have this options.
Rereading your post I'm not even sure what you are whining about at this point since you all over the place and not even responding to what I posted making it difficult to even formulate a reply that isn't as equally all over the place as your bitching.
FACT. Both axis factions have multiple units with more than 230 armour in their stock lineup
FACT. across the 3 allied factions there are only 2 stock units with more that 230 armour and they are mutually exclusive
FACT. The Shrek has more pen, enough to guarantee penetration on all allied stock vehicles minus the aforementioned and exclusive units
FACT. Zooks and piats are less effective per capita due to the higher armour of axis tanks
FACT. allied AT, while lower in reliability make up for that with saturation.

I don't know how else to spell it out for you...

You probably didn't know how to respond cuz u lost track of this thread is about with your useless cherry picked "facts". Op is moaning about the return of shrek blobs, whilst allied factions being doing the exact same at a higher frequency. What is making the OP frustrated (specifically about shreks) is the ALPHA DAMAGE it does, destroying tanks quickly leaving ppl with little time to react, thus why i suggested nerfing to bazooka levels so it WILL NO LONGER HAVE HIGH ALPHA DAMAGE,, yet you guys still reject that idea, almost as if you guys only want allied players to blob AT inf.

that statement would make sense if armor was free, if u pay for more armor then it's irrelevant as u will deal damage to more expensive unit

The price is irrelevant in this case. Its comparing pen rates in or stock armour against stock AT options. It's simply a matter of fact that even a Shrek clone would be less effective facing against the axis than it would be against the allies. There's nothing wrong with this, as you've said they pay for it, but equating one AT option against its rivals isn't as cut and dried. Yes allies due to the silly weapon racks can pump out AT blobs, but they are less effective. The reason Shrek blobs are so problematic is because they work so well and reliably. Don't get me wrong I hate blobs of all kinds on both sides of the game, but pretending that one AT blob and another are equal isn't correct. You have lower pen facing higher armour units. A blob of 50 zooks could fire and get 60 bounces against any stock axis tank starting at the p4 and up while the same is impossible for the Shrek.

Again, I don't have a problem with the discussion at all, but the highs and lows for both should be taken into account as one does not equate the other.
I've also always been cautious of cheap AT squads and defended the pre fussiliers Shrek by only being on squishy squads. I'm not trying to create an allied AT utopia or something here...

The factions that really blob with AT mostly is Allies in contrast to Axis in my experiences.

It is usually only in team games that I really ever counter such AT blobs.

Rating from top to bottom, the usage and likelihood of infantry acquiring handheld AT equipment.

Take it from a 4v4 scrub like myself.

Regardless of performance the main offenders for AT inf blobbing are the OST. No idea why but there is a plague of players who spam them.

Doesn't bother me though as I play mostly ussr as allies so they're a simple katyusha barrage to make run back to base or drop if you get a few good wipes in.

With the UKF/USF who lack nondoc rocket arty they can be a greater pain to deal with.

The REAL villain in this situation isn't the blob it's usually the awful pathing of the vehicle trying to escape it/stay out of range.

xD, all while penals PTRS blobs are being spammed in team games, and USF bazooka blobs too, dont forget the piats in UKF. but those are okay for some reason.

If u want, nerf the pen and damage on shreks to bazooka levels, and give the option for volks to once again upgrade 1 shrek, i wonder how long this allied trolls will last to make another thread

ptrs are the weakest at weapons in game sure they are good vs light tank but hit like piss vs medium and heavy and who the fuck use penal for at? the goal of penal is ai. only good ptrs unit are guard because of button and at cons since they have triple at nade attack. for piat just roll backward and you dodge all the shot and zook are only good with a ranger squad and even tho those better at squad for allies are still not better than panzershreck one since pen and dmg are all on axis side (for squad carriable one) and allies got the shittier one

ptrs are the weakest at weapons in game sure they are good vs light tank but hit like piss vs medium and heavy and who the fuck use penal for at? the goal of penal is ai. only good ptrs unit are guard because of button and at cons since they have triple at nade attack. for piat just roll backward and you dodge all the shot and zook are only good with a ranger squad and even tho those better at squad for allies are still not better than panzershreck one since pen and dmg are all on axis side (for squad carriable one) and allies got the shittier one

piat works like other at weapons now, they are not scatter based any more

And elite zook are similar than shrek thanks to accuracy and reload

piat works like other at weapons now, they are not scatter based any more

And elite zook are similar than shrek thanks to accuracy and reload

Elite bazookas aren't actually any more accurate than regular bazookas. They only get a penetration and damage bonus.

Shrek is also more accurate than either weapon up until max range.

I do agree that the elite zook is comparable though, because of the 2 second faster reload. Regular bazooka sure isn't though lol. And that is the main problem with a hypothetical rebalance of the Shrek along bazooka lines, as bazooka's much lower penetration stats (and definitely the elite bazooka stats) are much more efficient versus allied tanks than axis ones. (It is the same way with anti-tank guns.)

I personally think it'd prefer it for the simple fact that a Shrek volley wouldn't be an instant light vehicle delete, but I can see the point of the opposition, especially on the hard-to-hit PzGrens.

There is of course also the concern that it makes the game more samey, but I think the boat already sailed on that one.

piat works like other at weapons now, they are not scatter based any more

And elite zook are similar than shrek thanks to accuracy and reload

good to know that piat got some love after what it was but still all the allies counterpart to the shreck dont outshine it in any departement (like with tank where allies have range and axis have armor) we should not have to get x doc to have equal footing in at squad department to be frank and who in is right mind put 3 zook on ranger when thompson exist

good to know that piat got some love after what it was but still all the allies counterpart to the shreck dont outshine it in any departement (like with tank where allies have range and axis have armor) we should not have to get x doc to have equal footing in at squad department to be frank and who in is right mind put 3 zook on ranger when thompson exist

1 para troop exist, 2 u know pgren have to give up stg to get sherck right ? Who in their right mind would use shrek instead of stg ?

1 para troop exist, 2 u know pgren have to give up stg to get sherck right ? Who in their right mind would use shrek instead of stg ?

who? let me guess someone who skip tier 2 and decided to use pgren as at since panzershreck are just the best rocket laucher in the game can just do what a at gun would do minus range and they will face tanks that have no chance of deflecting a shreck shot the way german armor just make any zook piat and ptrs attack bounce on a unit with one of the best nade in game as well . para with laucher are sure good at unit but its still not better than ranger and deny the double mg or the Thompson upgrade that is the main reason why you call para

Take it from a 4v4 scrub like myself.

Regardless of performance the main offenders for AT inf blobbing are the OST. No idea why but there is a plague of players who spam them.

Doesn't bother me though as I play mostly ussr as allies so they're a simple katyusha barrage to make run back to base or drop if you get a few good wipes in.

With the UKF/USF who lack nondoc rocket arty they can be a greater pain to deal with.

The REAL villain in this situation isn't the blob it's usually the awful pathing of the vehicle trying to escape it/stay out of range.

They're hard to wipe. Three squads will insta-wipe standard Allied tanks. They have a great grenade and can sometimes for the retreat of AI infantry. Maxims don't slow them down enough if you play Soviet. Your only counter is to get a Katy and hope you get a good strike in quickly. Even KV-8's aren't good against them if there are enough squads.

As far as demos shouldn't be able to wipe units regardless, I agree, but the community wouldn't stand for another demo nerf currently.

Id rather have demos that can't wipe vs. demos that can't be used against anyone with half a brain

Also the territory point change was just overkill. Really annoying when a bunker is close enough to a point that i can't demo it after i flank it

And it might be doctrinal but i still don't understand how the Goliath is just totally fine in a world were demos aren't. Teller ohk comparison is also valid

Doesn't bother me though as I play mostly ussr as allies so they're a simple katyusha barrage to make run back to base or drop if you get a few good wipes in.

I wish so hard more people had your same vision of shrekblobs...

With the UKF/USF who lack nondoc rocket arty they can be a greater pain to deal with.

The REAL villain in this situation isn't the blob it's usually the awful pathing of the vehicle trying to escape it/stay out of range.

Agreed on both points, but remember that UKF and USF have relatively speaking better infantry vs shrekblobs.

My last game 2 pfussies side by side (touching eachother) with g43 and i believe vet3, just walked up to my maxim inside its cone of fire and started deathlooping it. Only one squad got supressed the other just plukked away at them. And people say the maxim does its job?

It only does its job in pairs or with the vet ability it seems. Or just some reall shitty roll on rng.
Demo,s only works if the enemy is brain dead. Mines hard capped at 2 per squad so thats 200 mp max if one is lucky.

I do have to state to my relief and slight amazement i encountered only 1 shreck blob the last days. Probably cuz of the patch coming up.