Riflemen need a buff or Volks need a nerf?

You are the one spreading misinformation. Volks have sanbags and if you don't use them that's your problem.
If we look at vanilla Riflemen vs vanilla Volks = volks win with sandbags
If we look at tech1 Riflemen vs tech1 Volks = volks still win with sandbags, flamnade and STG
We could also check the stat vet1 riflemen vs vet1 Volks but I'm pretty sure that here again volks win.

For the rifle to win, you have to add weapon unlock, grenade unlock and equip 2 BARs to finally get riflemen dominating volks accordingly to their price.

You should really stop with your on-paper theorycrafting, its getting boring to read.

statement "rifles lose to volks at long range." he said nothing about sand bags do again no

btw IS vs ober , IS win with sand bags or trenches

u need just 1 bar, 2 stg are worse than 1 bar, also okw start with - 15 fuel


you should stop playing the game with ur fan fic opinion, game is math not "opinions"

we could check vet 3 rifle vs volks vet 5 im 100% sure they win hands down

and cons/grens being unceremoniously raped by volks for 10mp is validated by your changes somehow?

no i addressed cons in the cons thread not here cause u know this is a volks vs rifle thread

statement "rifles lose to volks at long range." he said nothing about sand bags do again no

btw IS vs ober , IS win with sand bags or trenches

u need just 1 bar, 2 stg are worse than 1 bar, also okw start with - 15 fuel


you should stop playing the game with ur fan fic opinion, game is math not "opinions"

we could check vet 3 rifle vs volks vet 5 im 100% sure they win hands down

Then IS win vs Obers at long range, so what's the point?

You got 2 units, one equipped with free unlock tools and the other one only with superior raw power, how can you just state that the 2nd units is better than the first one? Volks lose to Riflemen if they aren't allowed to use their tools given freely or given after teching but how is it a fair comparison?
So why suddenly Riflemen +2BARs are becoming the best mainline infantry in your story telling? Why Riflemen should be accounted with dual BARs on late game for their power evaluation but Volks keeped naked early on for the same purpose?

IS do win vs Obers at long range, fortunately for the latest they're hitting the field with grenades to assault the position and denying cover to IS also decrease their firepower. Now follow the same logic with Volks and Rifle and you'll see the flaw in your comparison.

Your math only checking attitude make you miss half of the vision of the game.

Then IS win vs Obers at long range, so what's the point?

You got 2 units, one equipped with free unlock tools and the other one only with superior raw power, how can you just state that the 2nd units is better than the first one? Volks lose to Riflemen if they aren't allowed to use their tools given freely or given after teching but how is it a fair comparison?
So why suddenly Riflemen +2BARs are becoming the best mainline infantry in your story telling? Why Riflemen should be accounted with dual BARs on late game for their power evaluation but Volks keeped naked early on for the same purpose?

IS do win vs Obers at long range, fortunately for the latest they're hitting the field with grenades to assault the position and denying cover to IS also decrease their firepower. Now follow the same logic with Volks and Rifle and you'll see the flaw in your comparison.

Your math only checking attitude make you miss half of the vision of the game.

"axis get free stuff reeee" every fucking time, they pay more tech for it, would reducing the tech cost and adding the upgrade part separate change anything ? (other than allowing even faster rushes?)

Wait did u expect obers, an anti inf only elite squad that comes a tier 4 and cost 340 MP to not have nades ? REALLY ?

fucking guards have nades and they come at 3 cp

ur lack of math makes u think allies always pay more, while okw still has the most expensive full tech tree, stop with the "AxIs GeT fReE sTuFf rERerERERERe, PlEaSe BuFf AlLiEs"

no i addressed cons in the cons thread not here cause u know this is a volks vs rifle thread

the question here is... are volks OP?...

when they are compared to cons grens and even rifles they most certainly overperform...
the rifle basically outclasses the volks the same way volks outclass cons and grens...
but the rifle is 30mp more than the volk while cons and grens are but 10mp more than the volk...
by that we can then conclude that the volk should be priced higher than it is right now... hence 260mp for the base cost for volks seems just right... plus they need to lose the sandbags..

vloks them self ? no if u want u can rework them to have a better DPS curve with more long range dps but much worse mid and close, so just closing in will kill them if they are not in cover

again they don't overperform just cause they have same dps as rifle at long range

and again, they vloks don't outclass green and cons the same way rifle out class volks: rifle will either be equal or beat volks at all ranges, vloks will lose to cons at mid and close range, and gren are about the same, slightly worse at long range but better at close (but have lmg 42 > stg by a lot)

so no they are price fairly for what they do, the sand bag should be removed but only when pionier actually are free from some roles (see my reowrk)

about the stg u alredy know my opinion, put it in firestorm and add another stg (for 3 stg), and give them mp 40s with a buff to vet to make them survive like cons (so they can reach cqc)

and again, they vloks don't outclass green and cons the same way rifle out class volks: rifle will either be equal or beat volks at all ranges, vloks will lose to cons at mid and close range, and gren are about the same, slightly worse at long range but better at close (but have lmg 42 > stg by a lot)

conscripts at medium range are a 60/40... conscripts used to win handedly at mid and close range but when their DPS curve was flattened they no longer excel unless ur at hugging distance...

meanwhile grenadiers have the same dynamic as volks vs rifles... volks slaughter grens in cqc while grens are somewhat even but slightly win out at longer ranges...

A fix would be is if they make the roles of the Sturmpio and Volks more specific.

Either of one of them being an AI focused and the other being AT specialist.

Since both units are pretty strong in AI performances in the beginning which gives OKW generally an advantage.
___

Revamp Sturmpio and change their weapons to MP40 and cost of them being reduced to 280 manpower. Snare removed from Volks to Sturmpio.

It influences Early Game

Thus Sturmpio loses some mid range AI capabilities for more better close range, overall weakening their AI capabilities. To make Sturmpio more viable and acquirable then they are currently.


Snares are available in the beginning instead of being locked behind tech.

Volks can not be as spammable and efficient in this way since it wont be able to do many things at once. It will lose its AT capabilities in trade for more AI capabilities.

To remove the feature of Volks spamming and remove Faust (Sturmpio has Faust instead).

Key important feature that ruins allied and Okw gameplay is VOLKS SPAMMING.

Cost of Volks should increase to 260. Their accuracy should be buffed slightly according to price and for their loss of their AT snare. New feature should be is getting 3 STG when they get the last PzHQ.
___

Why these changes. So, they are not too AI powered in the beginning thus giving USF including other factions an opportunity to have the upper hand in the beginning.

To distinguish them. Both Volks and Sturmpio are currently AI dominant and should separate their roles better especially to give Allies to have some opportunities.

Also for OKW to have the opportunity to use Sturmpio more frequently for more different uses and designated roles.

Changes need to happen between both Sturmpio and Volks if Allies are to get an opportunity of improving their changes.

One other thing, OKW vehicles needs some changing also.

A fix would be is if they make the roles of the Sturmpio and Volks more specific.

Either of one of them being an AI focused and the other being AT specialist.

Since both units are pretty strong in AI performances in the beginning which gives OKW generally an advantage.
___

Revamp Sturmpio and change their weapons to MP40 and cost of them being reduced to 280 manpower. Snare removed from Volks to Sturmpio.

It influences Early Game

Thus Sturmpio loses some mid range AI capabilities for more better close range, overall weakening their AI capabilities. To make Sturmpio more viable and acquirable then they are currently.


Snares are available in the beginning instead of being locked behind tech.

Volks can not be as spammable and efficient in this way since it wont be able to do many things at once. It will lose its AT capabilities in trade for more AI capabilities.

To remove the feature of Volks spamming. Key important feature that ruins allied and Okw gameplay.

Cost of Volks should increase to 260. Their accuracy should be buffed slightly according to price and for their loss of their AT snare. New feature should be is getting 3 STG when they get the last PzHQ.
___

Why these changes. So, they are not too AI powered in the beginning thus giving USF including other factions in opportunity to have the upper hand in the beginning.

To distinguish them. Both Volks and Sturmpio are currently AI dominant and should separate their roles better especially to give Allies to have some opportunities.

Also for OKW to have the opportunity to use Sturmpio more frequently for more different uses and designated roles.

Changes need to happen between both Sturmpio and Volks if Allies are to get an opportunity of improving their changes.

One other thing, OKW vehicles needs some changing also.

your suggestion would create a snare + shreck blob combo... theres a good reason as to why i hate the new sapper piatblobs... and thats because this combo utterly shuts down axis armored play unless a brummbar or a stuka comes out...

conscripts at medium range are a 60/40... conscripts used to win handedly at mid and close range but when their DPS curve was flattened they no longer excel unless ur at hugging distance...

meanwhile grenadiers have the same dynamic as volks vs rifles... volks slaughter grens in cqc while grens are somewhat even but slightly win out at longer ranges...

not from my knowledge, green have about the same long range dps than volks 1.8 x 5 vs 2,26 x 4, and at close range 5.07 x 4 vs 4 x 5 so ABOUT the same, they do have 80 more hp but then green have 0.91 RA

so the problem are not volks,the problem are cons, i already explained how to fix them in the other thread please lets not continue the volks vs cons here too, this is vs rifle

rifle vs vloks is perfectly fine, the problem is the early swarm, the mod team is paling to rework okw and reduce their starting MP so u can't have 4 volks vs 3 rifle

Same. Don't forget churchill nerf if comet is buffed, but not to nerf it too harshly.

I almost forgot it thanks
And I don't understand why any other heavy tank is limited to 1 but Churchill is spammable.

your suggestion would create a snare + shreck blob combo... theres a good reason as to why i hate the new sapper piatblobs... and thats because this combo utterly shuts down axis armored play unless a brummbar or a stuka comes out...

That is very true.

The thing is. OKW cant counter vehicles without their own armour. They really do need some change and improvement in their AT department which they utterly lack.

They have too much AI focus and too little AT utility.

I almost forgot it thanks
And I don't understand why any other heavy tank is limited to 1 but Churchill is spammable.

Might have something to do with it having extremely weak gun compared to these other heavies and there being as many reasons to limit it to 1 as there are to limit panther to 1.

That is very true.

The thing is. OKW cant counter vehicles without their own armour. They really do need some change and improvement in their AT department which they utterly lack.

They have too much AI focus and too little AT utility.

If only they had an AT gun that could maybe turn invisible, ambushing opponents armor and never letting them scout early for it.
Hell, if that's not enough, maybe we could implement doctrinal anti tank squad with high durability of maybe 5 men and 2 shrecks.

If only they had an AT gun that could maybe turn invisible, ambushing opponents armor and never letting them scout early for it.
Hell, if that's not enough, maybe we could implement doctrinal anti tank squad with high durability of maybe 5 men and 2 shrecks.

if only said at gun actually hit a tank instead of destroying the poor farmer villages, and actually was able to shoot from a safer distance and have a shield

if only said at gun actually hit a tank instead of destroying the poor farmer villages, and actually was able to shoot from a safer distance and have a shield

Very true indeed.

Edit - It really does not make any sense to use a doctrine forcefully, just because it is done so to fulfill the roles that are missing, which is of great need.

AT roles not being fixed nor adjusted as it should be.

Simply Unprofessional.

Then what is the point of having doctrines if you can not choose willingly which ever you'd like, if you have to use the new doctrine to fill in the missing gaps!

not from my knowledge, green have about the same long range dps than volks 1.8 x 5 vs 2,26 x 4, and at close range 5.07 x 4 vs 4 x 5 so ABOUT the same, they do have 80 more hp but then green have 0.91 RA

so the problem are not volks,the problem are cons, i already explained how to fix them in the other thread please lets not continue the volks vs cons here too, this is vs rifle

rifle vs vloks is perfectly fine, the problem is the early swarm, the mod team is paling to rework okw and reduce their starting MP so u can't have 4 volks vs 3 rifle

tested in cheatmods...

close range
volks vs cons = volks sometimes wins with 1 models... sometimes its cons with 1 model left
volks vs rifles = rifles win with 4-3 models left
volks vs grens = volks win with 3-2 models left

medium range

volks vs grens = volks win with 3 models left
volks vs conscripts = volks win with 3-1 left
volks vs rifles = rifles win with 3-2 left

max range

volks vs grens = volks sometimes wins with 1 model left... sometimes grens win with 2 models left
volks vs conscripts = volks win with 3-2 models left
volks vs rifles = volks win with 2-1 models left

we can see a trend here... cons are somewhat even to volks at close range and get raped at medium and long range... grens are somewhat even to volks at long range but get raped at close to medium range...

this sounds just like rifles vs volks but hey volks totally arent underpriced...

can we see those test ?
especially the volks vs green as math does not check out

i really have no idea how to take videos... or even how to upload screenies to COH2.org...
but i use the conscript sandbag as a ruler and engage using the ranges 10 20 and 30 for long medium and close respectively...
none of the units are in cover and both units are right click oriented to face each other

"axis get free stuff reeee" every fucking time, they pay more tech for it, would reducing the tech cost and adding the upgrade part separate change anything ? (other than allowing even faster rushes?)

Wait did u expect obers, an anti inf only elite squad that comes a tier 4 and cost 340 MP to not have nades ? REALLY ?

fucking guards have nades and they come at 3 cp

ur lack of math makes u think allies always pay more, while okw still has the most expensive full tech tree, stop with the "AxIs GeT fReE sTuFf rERerERERERe, PlEaSe BuFf AlLiEs"

Lol, you should probably take some distance with the game, it is becoming impossible to discuss with you.

Lol, you should probably take some distance with the game, it is becoming impossible to discuss with you.

im on a break, imp playing TW 3k (that i totally bought btw), i just play a game every now and then