Just a note before it's potentially too late: spectator mode needs a delay to avoid that kind of issue. Something along the lines of 3 minutes. Having it 100% live would indeed bring a lot of security issues.
And that might be why a server would be required. I can't see p2p spectator having a delay.
Active spectator mode coh2?
17 Dec 2012, 00:01 AM
#61
Posts: 3709 | Subs: 2
17 Dec 2012, 00:04 AM
#62
Posts: 1620 | Subs: 2
It doesn't need a delay to avoid that kind of issue. As long as the only spectators are trusted casters, they can just set the delay on their own stream.
Signature by Ginnungagap
17 Dec 2012, 00:11 AM
#63
Posts: 100 | Subs: 2
It doesn't need a delay to avoid that kind of issue. As long as the only spectators are trusted casters, they can just set the delay on their own stream.
true, but it will help facilitate maphacking.
17 Dec 2012, 00:14 AM
#64
Posts: 3293
my personal opinion is that if the slots are invite only and have to be approved by both players. then it will be fine to have it live.
Failure is always an option. 
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17 Dec 2012, 00:18 AM
#65
Posts: 881
Yeah, when creating a basic game, just have 3 teams instead of 2. Germany, Soviets and a spectator-team. Problem fixed! 
17 Dec 2012, 00:22 AM
#66
Posts: 3709 | Subs: 2
And then that one good caster who forget once and completely destroy the credibility of a big tournament? It's a lot of pressure.
It also requires that trust in the first place, which might not always be the case. It's much better to be 100% sure and not even having to imply confidence into the mix. I know for a fact that doubts will happen, people can say x caster cheated for y player, players themselve could, and overall there would be no solution to deal with it and shut down accusations. Preventing it in the first place is million times better and would potentially save of a lot of troubles.
Sure I'd rather that than no spectator, but if time is spend into it it's better to try to make it correctly in the first place.
It also requires that trust in the first place, which might not always be the case. It's much better to be 100% sure and not even having to imply confidence into the mix. I know for a fact that doubts will happen, people can say x caster cheated for y player, players themselve could, and overall there would be no solution to deal with it and shut down accusations. Preventing it in the first place is million times better and would potentially save of a lot of troubles.
Sure I'd rather that than no spectator, but if time is spend into it it's better to try to make it correctly in the first place.
17 Dec 2012, 00:30 AM
#67
Posts: 881
Hmm, like in DotA2 you can spectate any game, but with a 3-5 minute delay.. yeah, that's the "advanced" solution 
17 Dec 2012, 00:46 AM
#68
Posts: 1620 | Subs: 2
Sure I'd rather that than no spectator, but if time is spend into it it's better to try to make it correctly in the first place.
Right, we'd all rather have a built in delay, but you said spectator mode needed a delay and I just pointed out that it doesn't need it - no delay is better than no spectator mode. Natural Selection 2 has tournaments every week that are livestreamed and the delay is handled by the casters.
Signature by Ginnungagap
17 Dec 2012, 01:02 AM
#69
Posts: 3709 | Subs: 2
Ok my bad, read it to highly advised. Unless there's potential unwanted cheating issues then obviously needed.
Unless there's potential unwanted cheating issues then obviously needed.
17 Dec 2012, 04:38 AM
#70
Posts: 308 | Subs: 1
No delay is needed. If a caster decides to forward information and ruin the credibility of his own tournament, well...he just ruined the credibility of his own tournament. Or ended his career as a caster for the game.
I guess this would be slightly more of an issue in CoH2 where the community is so small, but even in DoW2 this never happened.
Also, speaking of which...how can DoW2 have Obs slots but CoH2 doesn't? Very sad.
I guess this would be slightly more of an issue in CoH2 where the community is so small, but even in DoW2 this never happened.
Also, speaking of which...how can DoW2 have Obs slots but CoH2 doesn't? Very sad.
17 Dec 2012, 08:21 AM
#71
Posts: 65
What about Observer Maps? We do use it for EF mod, Observer Langres and Angoville, so 2 more people can join and watch the game live while it's played. Maybe by simple map options this problem can be solved. What do you think?
17 Dec 2012, 13:50 PM
#72
Posts: 65
What about Observer Maps? We do use it for EF mod, Observer Langres and Angoville, so 2 more people can join and watch the game live while it's played. Maybe by simple map options this problem can be solved. What do you think?
works, but this is another thing that the community has to do on its' own. Not the developers who we are paying a game for.
Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.
17 Dec 2012, 15:45 PM
#73
5 
Posts: 16697 | Subs: 12
What about Observer Maps? We do use it for EF mod, Observer Langres and Angoville, so 2 more people can join and watch the game live while it's played. Maybe by simple map options this problem can be solved. What do you think?
I think anything would be better than nothing. How could we possibly have a live event without obs mode? Without some form of solution ready on launch, many many opportunities will be lost.
17 Dec 2012, 18:38 PM
#74
Posts: 50
Even though I'm sadden by the fact that there won't be an observer mode in launch. I still rather want an observer mode that has been worked through, tested and fine coded to the game.
Hopefully the community will do obs maps until then.
Hopefully the community will do obs maps until then.
17 Dec 2012, 18:52 PM
#75
Posts: 1164
just for clarification, since i was not sure Seb meant the same thing...
when i was talking about Obs mode, i was only talking about observers for basic games, not automatch. automatch does not need spectators.
i'm not saying it wouldnt be a nice feature to be able to see "live" games being played (with maybe a 5 minute delay, keep in mind, even 2-3 min. delay information can be huge in CoH... like teching for example), but that is a LOT of work, requires a powerful, centralised server infrastructure, loads of bandwidth and a small army of programmers to write from scratch and maintain afterwards.
as a rule of thumb you could say: if SC2 does not have it, CoH2 does not need to have it.
when i was talking about Obs mode, i was only talking about observers for basic games, not automatch. automatch does not need spectators.
i'm not saying it wouldnt be a nice feature to be able to see "live" games being played (with maybe a 5 minute delay, keep in mind, even 2-3 min. delay information can be huge in CoH... like teching for example), but that is a LOT of work, requires a powerful, centralised server infrastructure, loads of bandwidth and a small army of programmers to write from scratch and maintain afterwards.
as a rule of thumb you could say: if SC2 does not have it, CoH2 does not need to have it.
17 Dec 2012, 19:06 PM
#76
Posts: 43
Terrible rule. Why not play sc2 then?
I also think you're grossly overestimating the amount of work required to input this feature in the game.
I also think you're grossly overestimating the amount of work required to input this feature in the game.
17 Dec 2012, 19:23 PM
#77
Posts: 6
If coh2 dont get a spectator mode / maybe afterwards
then you have to live with the fact that coh2 will not be that great competitive game as it would be with it.
And btw SC2 sucks. Comparing Company of Horoes with Starcraft is like to compare a dolphin with an trout
then you have to live with the fact that coh2 will not be that great competitive game as it would be with it.
And btw SC2 sucks. Comparing Company of Horoes with Starcraft is like to compare a dolphin with an trout
17 Dec 2012, 20:01 PM
#78
Posts: 65
I don't think anyone compares the two diff theme games but the tools they have. Observer mode can be added only to basic matches as it's already suggested; not only for better Shoutcasts ofc but also you can join your friends game even if you don't play, so you don't have to wait until they finish.
So even if they won't add such control panel to Basic match setup, maybe they can add extra slots to maps for viewers at least; like Obs Maps. We waited so long for such improvements I guess it's even much more important than ColdTech or Truesight for most of us.
So even if they won't add such control panel to Basic match setup, maybe they can add extra slots to maps for viewers at least; like Obs Maps. We waited so long for such improvements I guess it's even much more important than ColdTech or Truesight for most of us.
18 Dec 2012, 12:20 PM
#79
Posts: 1164
you don't have to like SC2 in order to acknowledge that is one of THE biggest games in esports, and has some of THE best tools for esports.
Learn from the best.
Learn from the best.
18 Dec 2012, 14:58 PM
#80
Posts: 6
SC2!(not 1) is not a top game. Its like pop music compared to rock/metal music.
Only because 100.000.00.... most asian play this game doesnt make it good.
80% listen to pop. But rock/metal is still better. Higher class music.
CoH(2) is more conmplex, dynamic, better looking and more fun to play.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/company-of-heroes
Just look at the User Score
So pls dont learn from inferior games
Only because 100.000.00.... most asian play this game doesnt make it good.
80% listen to pop. But rock/metal is still better. Higher class music.
CoH(2) is more conmplex, dynamic, better looking and more fun to play.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/company-of-heroes
Just look at the User Score
So pls dont learn from inferior games
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