Lets talk shrims as a commando unit

Shrimms are supposed to be okw commando unit.
Yet the unit has no commando abilities.
What could be added to make them more commando?
I would like them to be able to plant mines.
Good idea?

They arent commandos. They are versatile elites that can handle diffirent combat situations. They do not care about range in combat, have grenades and panzerfaust which allows them to deal with enemies in cover and fend off light vehicles and can ambush or stay hidden behind lines if necessary. Commandos are purely ambush infantry with weapons and abilities designed around that.

I think what Fallshirmjager could do with is removing some of its current utilities for some abilities instead.

Currently they are the least effective elite unit. I do not why it is so but it is true.

If you take USF paratroopers for the same price I think, they decimate Fallshirm with the Thompson. Even with MG upgrade. They perform similarly without upgrade but USF paratroopers still has the upper hand. Shreds Fallshirms in a matter of seconds when close-mid range with Thompson "accuracy boost ability". Fallshirmjagers are indeed pretty bad in comparison.

I am not saying buff Fallshirmjagers, rather it should get some adjustments to suit better as an elite unit rather than some guy who has a bunch of stuff in their pockets and does not know exactly what to do with them.

Commando unit even does way better than Fallshirmjagers for the similar prices.

I think the current problem is, their camo function. Also due to having no abilities and boosters. Accuracy being (around 0.5-0.55 I believe) currently poor due to their high damage being 8. Adjustments are required!

I think Camo function should be the same as UKF Commando (when they ambush, they receive a slight accuracy boost within that period). Decrease their utility. To force them to use a certain play-style like Commandos which they were like. Especially they were the elite paratroopers.

Maybe remove both Pzfaust and Phosphorous for a dedicated AI unit role. Currently it suits neither purpose properly since it is undefined.

Yeah, I think they should get an ambush bonus but lose the faust. They're not great until the later levels of vet.

I think what Fallshirmjager could do with is removing some of its current utilities for some abilities instead.

Currently they are the least effective elite unit. I do not why it is so but it is true.

If you take USF paratroopers for the same price I think, they decimate Fallshirm with the Thompson. Even with MG upgrade. They perform similarly without upgrade but USF paratroopers still has the upper hand. Shreds Fallshirms in a matter of seconds when close-mid range with Thompson "accuracy boost ability". Fallshirmjagers are indeed pretty bad in comparison.

I am not saying buff Fallshirmjagers, rather it should get some adjustments to suit better as an elite unit rather than some guy who has a bunch of stuff in their pockets and does not know exactly what to do with them.

Commando unit even does way better than Fallshirmjagers for the similar prices.

I think the current problem is, their camo function. Also due to having no abilities and boosters. Accuracy being (around 0.5-0.55 I believe) currently poor due to their high damage being 8. Adjustments are required!


I think Camo function should be the same as UKF Commando (when they ambush, they receive a slight accuracy boost within that period). Decrease their utility. To force them to use a certain play-style like Commandos which they were like. Especially they were the elite paratroopers.

Maybe remove both Pzfaust and Phosphorous for a dedicated AI unit role. Currently it suits neither purpose properly since it is undefined.

The worst is the Soviet "Airborne" - it's just the union of the Shock Troops and the Guard. In their parachuting about zero meaning:
- they can only capture an empty point, cache resource - they cannot capture, you can try to throw a grenade into it and try to destroy it with a rifle, it will take so much time that it will come to you at once. Just one bunker on the Victory Point? You have no chance.
- A sudden stab in the back? 15 seconds of appearance and a huge smoke screen that will be noticed and blind.
- Ambush? Maybe, but the Shock Troops and the Guard can do the same ambush, with camouflage it would be much more effective.
But they have a ridiculous veteran IL-2 strafe! Which would be appropriate for the Airborne officer or at Headquarters

The only point in parachuting them is a quicker appearance on friendly territory.

planting mine makes Fallschirm more like commandos?

No

i like how unique falls are. they are one of the few high risk high reward units left. to get the best milage out of them you SHOULD be using them as ambush troops anyways, but an accuracy bonus on a good at all ranges weapon is asking for trouble....

My feeling is that it is more about doing something to OP shocks and super powerful commandos grenades. Still, I'd give them camo

My feeling is that it is more about doing something to OP shocks and super powerful commandos grenades. Still, I'd give them camo

Falls have camo... Also equally if not closely comparable grenades to commandos. They simply trade durability (that extra model) for all ranges DPS and a snare.

They arent commandos. They are versatile elites that can handle diffirent combat situations. They do not care about range in combat, have grenades and panzerfaust which allows them to deal with enemies in cover and fend off light vehicles and can ambush or stay hidden behind lines if necessary. Commandos are purely ambush infantry with weapons and abilities designed around that.

This is the correct answer.

They are 0.83 RA 4 man squad with basically empowered 4 bars.

The damage on bundle nade is equally powerful to the commando nade.

The main issue with Fallschirmjager I find as a unit are:

-Lack of concentrated DPS/Dropping DPS as models go down.
-Accuracy veterancy doesn't completely kick in until veterancy 5.
-Late deployment.
-Relatively squishy with worse DPS than PGs at shorter-ranges and Obers doing the job better at far late game.

They do not need commando abilities, but even if Volks were not as good as they are today, but they struggle against quite most upgraded mainline units, especially when the model drop kicks in and they do hurt your manpower on losses.

Random ideas on the unit are to consolidate the accuracy into vet 3 and vet 5 could be an ambush bonus and maybe either improve the FG 42's mid-far range band or come earlier with some adjustments.

This is the correct answer.

They are 0.83 RA 4 man squad with basically empowered 4 bars.

The damage on bundle nade is equally powerful to the commando nade.

Ok, thanks for the info. That's 4 man squad issue than. Experiencing commandos grenades on the receiving end as ost

Falls have camo... Also equally if not closely comparable grenades to commandos. They simply trade durability (that extra model) for all ranges DPS and a snare.

Somebody wrote about camo before - that it is somehow different from what they would like - probably some camo bonus - I'm for it

The main issue with Fallschirmjager I find as a unit are:

-Lack of concentrated DPS/Dropping DPS as models go down.
-Accuracy veterancy doesn't completely kick in until veterancy 5.
-Late deployment.
-Relatively squishy with worse DPS than PGs at shorter-ranges and Obers doing the job better at far late game.

They do not need commando abilities, but even if Volks were not as good as they are today, but they struggle against quite most upgraded mainline units, especially when the model drop kicks in and they do hurt your manpower on losses.

Random ideas on the unit are to consolidate the accuracy into vet 3 and vet 5 could be an ambush bonus and maybe either improve the FG 42's mid-far range band or come earlier with some adjustments.

Please as a force in the changing of the game can we move AWAY from concentrated DPS? as someone who remembers attrition being more than just a MP bleed factor and an increased chance of wipe.... Can we please stop dumbing down the combat? Losing models should be impactful and squads with concentrated DPS should be few and far between. In vanilla we had grens who had a small model count, guards who had shit awful AT weapons and had to make up the dps somewhere and random partisans who couldn't be counted on AT ALL (also irregular but... See above?)
Now we have *insert damn near any WFA unit who is already capable in their own right before upgrades*
Falls design isnt to blame as it follows the old style of "taking losses hurts your chance of winning this skirmish" its the new design of "stack your infantry so you can out fight the enemy"

Once upon a time you were rewarded by taking favorable trades. Not by buying them.

I'd see ambush camo as an additon via vet but PLEASE no consolidation of DPS...

Put the" Tactical" back in "tactical real time strategy"

Somebody wrote about camo before - that it is somehow different from what they would like - probably some camo bonus - I'm for it

As a vet bonus for sure. As a native ability.... Well we already have JLI designed to ignore retreating durability bonuses and cover so let maybe move away from "ignore the game mechanics to make the unit attractive" style bonuses. Falls already have tremendous DPS so a native ambush bonus would require nerfing them to keep them from being nuts.

That said, in coh 3 I would like things like camo to provide a standard bonus that every camo unit can count on. None of this "maybe that one will have it, maybe not" bull shit.

As a vet bonus for sure. As a native ability.... Well we already have JLI designed to ignore retreating durability bonuses and cover so let maybe move away from "ignore the game mechanics to make the unit attractive" style bonuses. Falls already have tremendous DPS so a native ambush bonus would require nerfing them to keep them from being nuts.

That said, in coh 3 I would like things like camo to provide a standard bonus that every camo unit can count on. None of this "maybe that one will have it, maybe not" bull shit.

True. Maybe its again a 4 member squad issue that some playrs feel there's somethingbwrong with them.

Please as a force in the changing of the game can we move AWAY from concentrated DPS?

As long as Obersoldaten exist, Falls in their current state are redundant as long as they drop 25% of their (rather mediocre) DPS per model drop. Non-concentrated DPS simply does not work well for 4 men squads.

Some things can be done to their timing and role, but ultimately their non-concentrated DPS is always going to be a weak point when IR STG / LMG Obersoldaten do have it.

As long as Obersoldaten exist, Falls in their current state are redundant as long as they drop 25% of their (rather mediocre) DPS per model drop. Non-consolidated DPS simply does not work well for 4 men squads.

Some things can be done to their timing and role, but ultimately their non consolidated DPS is always going to be a weak point when IR STG / LMG Obersoldaten do have it.

Agreed, remove obers
Now, on a serious note, falls are what? 3CP? What if they dropped to 2?
Timing is also very important factor in relevance of a unit, earlier arrival would allow them to get the scaling needed for late game, while retaining initial punch.

Agreed, remove obers
Now, on a serious note, falls are what? 3CP? What if they dropped to 2?
Timing is also very important factor in relevance of a unit, earlier arrival would allow them to get the scaling needed for late game, while retaining initial punch.

Sounds like a good idea to try it.

As long as Obersoldaten exist, Falls in their current state are redundant as long as they drop 25% of their (rather mediocre) DPS per model drop. Non-consolidated DPS simply does not work well for 4 men squads.

Some things can be done to their timing and role, but ultimately their non consolidated DPS is always going to be a weak point when IR STG / LMG Obersoldaten do have it.

Or it simply consolidated DPS works allot better for 5-6 men squads thus should be avoided or toned down.