new commanders, it's not pay to win. it's just pay to use.

before hotfix bug patch, it was pay to win.

FHQ bug, AssGren spam. they were really terrible.

but now, it's not pay to win. just pay to use.


ostruppen, AssGren, KV1, FHQ.. etc...

ya. they are special. but not OP now.


many pro users doesn't use this coms. or they use them for fun.

and many noobs use this coms, but they cant win.


i dont know why people say pay to win.

new coms doesn't give win to you.


not pay to win. just pay to use and fun.



im using new coms. but it's just for fun.

and i think, the best coms are five defualt coms. (or free DCE coms )


my rank in soviet, 1v1 in 50, and 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 in 100.

(but in german, it's not good )

noobs loose because they are new players.
and i cant say about pros but i could say they don't use them because they are unbalanced.

your rank is 100? i could use some advice here then.

http://www.coh2.org/replays/8697/2v2-what-to-do-with-tigers
http://www.coh2.org/replays/8695/2v2-what-to-do-with-panthers

I've noticed in the pay 2 win debate a lack of understanding. If you can spend real life money to alter your chances of winning by even the slightest margin, then it's a pay 2 win game.

I've heard excuses saying: its paying for variety etc,.. sure you are, but it does not negate the fact that if you have more options then the person you are playing against.

No one is saying that you will win every game or even a majority of the games played. What people, including me, who are upset by the whole thing is that this new pay 2 win model will ultimately destroy the game, people will stop playing, people will not start playing and those who keep playing will have to spend money to keep them on a even keel to other, buying members of the community.

Every new commanders especially with new abilities are supposed to be pay 2 win because Relic balancers didn't had enough time to test them, so they've been made more less balanced, after few patches this gonna change i think

Balance has never been the issue though. Of course they will balance out the new commanders eventually, as they will with other aspects of the game. It does not negate the fact that if you as a player has more options then your opponent then you have an advantage, hence pay 2 win.

Balance IS an issue when it takes them 3 months to fix, especially when they're probably hoping on releasing new unbalanced wave of commanders every other month the game is NEVER going to be balanced.

Stil they are seperate issues. Balance can be fixed eventually. Pay 2 win is a point of no return really since the only way to fix it is to go back on what you have done. Hence giving back the money, and we all know that is not going to happen. Cause if they dont return the money its pretty much stealing (if they revert this decision)

Exactly. Anyone who thought they'd leave Assault grenadiers they way they were on releaseday is insane.

This is exactly what I've been saying all along, it's better they add random stuff all the time at a small cost rather than never adding anything.

As long as you're not forced to buy anything to play I don't care. I'd even pay money to get tons of new 3v3 and 4v4 maps. Seriously.

what annoys me though is that I can't practice against those new commanders if I don't buy them, so until you get some experience, you do have a disadvantage. Not P2W per say but still very annoying.

If these Commanders had been included in Case Blue, I'd have bought Case Blue, even though IGAF about single player. Largely to support Relic.

I wont buy them as separate content pieces.

Id feel dirty for going "P2W", and buying an advantage my opponents wont have. I can stomach the shuffle commanders as DLC, but not these ones with content on them completely unavailable to those who havent bought that P2W.

If these Commanders had been included in Case Blue, I'd have bought Case Blue, even though IGAF about single player. Largely to support Relic.

I wont buy them as separate content pieces.

Id feel dirty for going "P2W", and buying an advantage my opponents wont have. I can stomach the shuffle commanders as DLC, but not these ones with content on them completely unavailable to those who havent bought that P2W.

No need to feel dirty. Remember, you dont play the game, so you have no opponents in the game. Your true opponents are on this forum. As for me....I am your biggest fan.

Not to dig at nullist, I think he is suprsingly well informed on coh2. However that knowledge is statistical and there is very little practical experience. Why don't you ever play the game? It's funny because you are so vocal on the forum. Is there a reason you choose not to play?? If you played both factions more your views may change, mine did when I switched to soviets last couple of weeks.

If you accept the fact Relic is going to need money in order to support the game for an extended time period, I'd rather they gained that money through adding new content as opposed to say monthly subscription, for example. In addition to making the game more diverse, at least this way people can choose whether or not they want to pay more. And the new DLC they add has to include things like new commanders, because there is no way they'd ever make enough money off superficial things like skins.

With regards to the new commanders giving players new options, and therefore being pay to win. I understand the argument, but I think it is important to put it into perspective. ToV for example, was far more guilty of this than the current model. There, the options increased from only 1 choice to 2 if you paid more money (a big increase). If you didn't like the stug, and it didn't fit with your play style, then the Gwagon was better for you and made your strat better.

The difference now is there are a lot of choices from the get go. So instead of doubling a players options, they are increasing it from 15 to 16 (a much smaller advantage). The tipping point at which it no longer becomes a pay to win model at all is when everyone can find 3 free commanders that are strong and support their tactics well. At this point, any balanced commander they add won't be pay to win, because to use that commander and gain its options, a player will have to lose another viable commander which would've also worked well with their play style.