Tanks lose accuracy on the move?

Ok, my bad then.

Sniper 100% from a moving vehicle was pfft.
Glad they fixed that.

Ok, my bad then.

Sniper 100% from a moving vehicle was pfft.
Glad they fixed that.

.

of so many

Mobile double post, ability to delete would be swell!

I'm not Endeav, but I can confirm this - LMGs, same as sniper rifles, have shooting on the move disabled and get 0.5 accuracy penalty on the move.

You can check it here (in raw data, under "moving"): http://coh2-stats.herokuapp.com/small_arms/grenadier_mg42lmg_mp

Actually I checked this earlier and it was blank on mobile maybe didn't give it enough time to load or something.

Ok, my bad then.

Sniper 100% from a moving vehicle was pfft.
Glad they fixed that.

I don't think they ever fixed it, it was always like that. You aren't likely to notice when they missed given how much rage a sniper scout car induced.

@Nullist. In what way is it universal knowledge that tanks get .5 modifier on the move? Its something that would make sense, but I would argue that the numbers ARE NOT universal knowledge, if it was, this thread wouldnt exist would it? Think you have to accept that everyone does not know what you do nullist, dont have to be a smartass about it.

Code

| | moving: {
| | | accuracy_multiplier: 0.5f;
| | | burst_multiplier: 1f;
| | | cooldown_multiplier: 1f;
| | | disable_moving_firing: true;
| | | moving_end_time: 0f;
| | | moving_start_time: 0f;

Cannot fire while moving, takes a .5 accuracy penalty while moving.

Is this an excerpt from the sniper's weapon file or from somewhere else?

Because it doesn't really make sense to me. I can confirm that snipers in M3s can still shoot while the M3 moves and I can also confirm that they miss a lot when it is moving.

However, this all doesn't make sense to me. Let me clarify:
If the sniper moves, he cannot fire. If he moves, he also receives a 0.5 accuracy modifier. Because he misses while the halftrack is moving, he obviously receives an accuracy modifier. However, if that accuracy modifier were from the movement section of the sniper's weapon stats, it'd mean he'd be registered as moving and thus shouldn't be able to fire.
Therefore, the accuracy reduction must come from somewhere else, not from the movement section of the sniper's weapon stats.

Or am I missing something here? Does someone know where the modifiers might come from if not from the sniper's weapon stats movement section?
I'm really not interested in the quarreling nonsense in this thread, I'm just trying to get more insight into the game stats.

I really wish you guys would spend less time arguing with one another. It really reduces the quality of feedback I can relay to the team. Not to mention it's very immature, I think most of you are above that to be honest.

Yes, units in halftrack garrison receive a 0.5 accuracy modifier.

On topic; do you feel moving vehicles should also receive a scatter penalty? This would penalize them more equally against infantry and vehicles. Adding a scatter penalty ontop of the accuracy penalty would bring the relationship closer to vCOH levels for reference.

On topic; do you feel moving vehicles should also receive a scatter penalty? This would penalize them more equally against infantry and vehicles. Adding a scatter penalty ontop of the accuracy penalty would bring the relationship closer to vCOH levels for reference.

What I understand from your comment is that moving tanks receive accuracy penalty against other tanks but not infantry?

I think tanks are fine now against infantry. If you penalize their accuracy more they will become useless against infantry because they have to keep moving to avoid panzerfaust and At nades.

However, this all doesn't make sense to me. Let me clarify:
If the sniper moves, he cannot fire. If he moves, he also receives a 0.5 accuracy modifier. Because he misses while the halftrack is moving, he obviously receives an accuracy modifier. However, if that accuracy modifier were from the movement section of the sniper's weapon stats, it'd mean he'd be registered as moving and thus shouldn't be able to fire.
Therefore, the accuracy reduction must come from somewhere else, not from the movement section of the sniper's weapon stats.

Or am I missing something here? Does someone know where the modifiers might come from if not from the sniper's weapon stats movement section?
I'm really not interested in the quarreling nonsense in this thread, I'm just trying to get more insight into the game stats.

yea i agree with you, i think endeav is pulling the wrong stats i think there is probably a modifier in the m3 stats that explains this instead.

On topic; do you feel moving vehicles should also receive a scatter penalty? This would penalize them more equally against infantry and vehicles. Adding a scatter penalty ontop of the accuracy penalty would bring the relationship closer to vCOH levels for reference.

maybe some tanks should have a scatter modifier, but most are already so weak against infantry. maybe t70 and ostwind should scatter a bit more when moving? currently, both of them kite extremely well.

What I understand from your comment is that moving tanks receive accuracy penalty against other tanks but not infantry?

I think tanks are fine now against infantry. If you penalize their accuracy more against infantry they will become useless because they have keep moving to avoid panzerfaust and At nades.

Tank accuracy is determined by the size of its target (an attribute of mostly vehicles) and its accuracy:
size*accuracy = chance to hit

Infantry have a small (or no?) target size, meaning only "missed" (scatter) shots hit them (see scatter and AoE mechanics). So the current 0.5 modifier does have a negligible effect vs. infantry.
Missing slightly more when you already miss nearly all of the time doesn't change much.


As for the scatter modifier it maybe would be interesting to test but it'd probably mess up things too much. Maybe on some vehicles that have scatter values much lower than comparable vehicles, e.g. the T-34. But I guess it doesn't really matter, could mess up the balancing too much and if a unit were to be nerfed, other means (e.g. AoE reduction to reduce AI damage) are probably more reliable tools.

Tank accuracy is determined by the size of its target (an attribute of mostly vehicles) and its accuracy:
size*accuracy = chance to hit

Infantry have a small (or no?) target size, meaning only "missed" (scatter) shots hit them (see scatter and AoE mechanics). So the current 0.5 modifier does have a negligible effect vs. infantry.
Missing slightly more when you already miss nearly all of the time doesn't change much.


As for the scatter modifier it maybe would be interesting to test but it'd probably mess up things too much. Maybe on some vehicles that have scatter values much lower than comparable vehicles, e.g. the T-34. But I guess it doesn't really matter, could mess up the balancing too much and if a unit were to be nerfed, other means (e.g. AoE reduction to reduce AI damage) are probably more reliable tools.

infantry have a target size of 1 so tanks have between a 2.5 and 5% chance for direct hits on infantry. that obviously means 95 to 97.5% of shots are misses, even for great AI tanks like t70 and ostwind. the only reason they do damage is because of their scatter and AOE.

the point of the scatter modifier isnt to reduce the AI ability all the time. AOE reduction would mean they are just flat out worse against inf. a movement penalty to AOE would also make no sense (different shell just because theyre moving?) so scatter is the logical stat to change.

Tank accuracy is determined by the size of its target (an attribute of mostly vehicles) and its accuracy:
size*accuracy = chance to hit

Infantry have a small (or no?) target size, meaning only "missed" (scatter) shots hit them (see scatter and AoE mechanics). So the current 0.5 modifier does have a negligible effect vs. infantry.
Missing slightly more when you already miss nearly all of the time doesn't change much.


As for the scatter modifier it maybe would be interesting to test but it'd probably mess up things too much. Maybe on some vehicles that have scatter values much lower than comparable vehicles, e.g. the T-34. But I guess it doesn't really matter, could mess up the balancing too much and if a unit were to be nerfed, other means (e.g. AoE reduction to reduce AI damage) are probably more reliable tools.

Thanks, what I gather from your comment is that tanks on the move miss the same against vehicles or infantry, it's just that infantry gets killed by the scatter not the direct hit so the accuracy reduction is less important.

the point of the scatter modifier isnt to reduce the AI ability all the time. AOE reduction would mean they are just flat out worse against inf. a movement penalty to AOE would also make no sense (different shell just because theyre moving?) so scatter is the logical stat to change.

Oh right, good point. Overlooked that. I was thinking about decreasing the AoE if it were too good vs. infantry in every case (stationary and mobile. AoE modifiers for moving don't make sense, I agree.
So a for example a moving scatter angle modifier could be used if a unit turned out to be too good for chasing retreating units or kiting without hurting its stationary performance.

I was wrong, and apologise for arguing a wrong point so vehemently.

I genuinely believed Snipers had always had, and still had, 100% accuracy from vehicles

Actually I checked this earlier and it was blank on mobile maybe didn't give it enough time to load or something.

Nope, I just had a typo that made that part of data not being displayed on the site
I fixed it minutes before posting here.

pqumsieh has confirmed that accuracy penalty, but if someone is interested where it might be coming from... while it could be somewhat logical to use moving accuracy modifiers even for weapons that can't be shot while moving (otherwise, why would such weapons had modifiers for shooting while moving?), it seems like M3 and M5 have an ability called "m3a1_m5_moving_accuracy", which targets "occupants" and multiplies their accuracy by 0,5.

Can be completely wrong on that, but it seems to be it.

Yeah that makes sense. Thank you for looking that up

What I understand from your comment is that moving tanks receive accuracy penalty against other tanks but not infantry?

I think tanks are fine now against infantry. If you penalize their accuracy more they will become useless against infantry because they have to keep moving to avoid panzerfaust and At nades.

I think the current lack of scatter penalty while moving is good as is. I do think there should be some kind of penalty against AT gun crews though. It seems that tanks kill AT gun crews far more often than in vCOH (where the AT gun itself usually dies before the crew).