Panzer Tactician too strong, prove me wrong.

Just a poll to throw in too. But I think this ability has overstayed it's welcome in the Coh2 community and I'm not sure why it's even necessary.

On average axis tanks have more armor than allied tanks and yet they need the survivability buff of the smoke combined with Blitz to do what?

I mean, the main way Soviets used to take down Axis tanks years ago was ram, a sacrificial lamb to take out an axis tank and even if it meant a suicidal attempt on the Soviet side of things the ram was nerfed so hard it's almost never used now. Sure, it was very powerful but nerfing something to the point it isn't viable anymore is just sad and ruins the asymmetrical goal of this game. The squeeky wheels get the grease as they always say, and judging by the numbers more people need to start complaining about allied factions unless you enjoy the search queues going back up to 80-90% axis and 10-20% allies huh? Don't you guys want to have PEOPLE to play against? cause it's slipping back again already.

This single ability is tied to tons of frustration for not only new players, but veterans. I've been training a friend up to be viable at coh2, but his frustration with pop smoke has him begging me to queue as axis instead because he always finds the Wehr a far more reliable, solid faction that he can depend on. That's a noob speaking.. and he isn't exactly wrong.

as far as i know... there was a forced ground attack command in every unit with balistic weapon.. but sadly i didnt know what is that thing for...

and if you know that in WW2 RPG-43 AT grenade and Russian satchel design is the most advance thing in the war.. they have advance near-alien level of fire and forget mechanism that why soviet win the war read some history books..

Every smoke ability in COH2 should be changed to the UKF/USF design of having to shoot a smoke grenade with your main gun. Just pressing a button to get your vehicle out of a difficult situation is just brainless and stupid. Super annoying IMO.

I don't understand why you spend so much time talking about things you're not gonna change. I also don't understand why I always read this. lol
If there's anything grossly unbalanced about this game, the professional players will give their opinion and Relic will react at some point. Trust the guys who understand this game down to the last detail.

Every smoke ability in COH2 should be changed to the UKF/USF design of having to shoot a smoke grenade with your main gun. Just pressing a button to get your vehicle out of a difficult situation is just brainless and stupid. Super annoying IMO.

If we're going to change anything, the smoke grenade launcher system should remain as it's historically accurate. What could be changed instead is that it takes longer for the smoke to deploy (like with the Sherman) so it can be used tactically, but no longer serves as a last second panic button.

A 2-3 second delay before the smoke effects kick in would nullify its use as a last resort save button while maintaining its use in tactical retreats.

Apply the simple solution I always suggest to this problem: adjust cost.

If it’s too good for it’s cost, make it more expensive. If it’s not good enough for its cost, then make it cheaper.

In this case a simple increase to the cost of using Panzer Tactician (stupid name, by the way. Why can’t it just be called smoke dischargers? Lol).

Panzer Tactician is a little too good of a get out of jail free card. BUT if it cost a little more, say 5-10 munitions more, then over using it will cost you the ability to buy LMG42’s and lay teller mines etc.

Every smoke ability in COH2 should be changed to the UKF/USF design of having to shoot a smoke grenade with your main gun. Just pressing a button to get your vehicle out of a difficult situation is just brainless and stupid. Super annoying IMO.

I think it works on vehicles that have it stock because they're balanced around it.

Panzer Tactician adds it to every vehicle OST has, which makes a huge difference to their survivability.

OST has two doctrinal smoke abilities, Smoke Bombs and Panzer Tactician. Smoke Bombs is really useful but Panzer Tactician is substantially more powerful in my opinion.

One solution is to simply redistribute the two abilities.

LIVE

• Panzer Tactician
  • Blitzkrieg Doctrine
    
  • Elite Troops Doctrine
    
  • Festung Armor Doctrine
    
  • Fortified Armor Doctrine
    
  • Mobile Defence Doctrine
    
  • Spearhead Doctrine
    
  
  
• Smoke Bombs
  • Festung Support Doctrine
    
  • German Mechanized Doctrine
    
  • Storm Doctrine
    

REARRANGED (italics have moved)

• Panzer Tactician
  • Blitzkrieg Doctrine
    
  • Festung Armor Doctrine
    
  • Spearhead Doctrine
    
  • Storm Doctrine
    
  
  
• Smoke Bombs
  • Festung Support Doctrine
    
  • German Mechanized Doctrine
    
  • Elite Troops Doctrine
    
  • Fortified Armor Doctrine
    
  
  
• Reconnaissance Overflight
  • Mobile Defence Doctrine
    

Restricting Panzer Tactician to four relatively underused doctrines makes those doctrines more desirable. Festung Armor and Storm are barely used and Spearhead already loses out to Lightning War as a Tiger doctrine. Blitzkrieg competes much more strongly with Mobile Defence and Elite Troops if it's the only one that keeps Panzer Tactician.

Elite Troops, Mobile Defence and Fortified Armor lose Panzer Tactician in favour of the more versatile but less responsive Smoke Bombs. Mobile Defence loses smoke entirely, although it might be worth sticking it on the OST Puma as stock in that case.

Everything play axis but highest win rates matchups are both sov vs axis faction..

Flavor of the last 3 years: Slowly but surely, nerf everything that is potent, no matter the faction or unit, into the ground.

Let's have nothing left when we are done!

I don't think it's ever going to be touched, Wehr has a lot of over the top stuff that's been unchanged for years, sadly.
It's really funny when their vehicles can blitz on reverse and pop ninja smoke though.

There should be a second balance forum for no-playercard complains

Don't sweat it, I've been complainig about this ability for years, the community don't want to admit that panzer tactician is braindead and offers an unfair advantage.
As always you also have that one moron (or two, or three...) who will share stats about how allies dominate the game...

At least making it using actual micro would be a good change, right now is just press a button and gone.
You would think that using it would bleed the ammunition, it's doesn't.

I understand this ability on fragile units though.


Playing against idiots who can simply pull off and save their tanks when you win the encounter is way too frustrating, it doesn't pay off for good players.

Keep it for lights, and apply the warspeed treatment for mediums, would be fair

it should really have a slight delay the way american smoke does, that ways its less "crutchy"

If you did that you'd probably need a visible timer on it so it doesn't feel unresponsive.

It would be weaker if we had the option of firing a projectile in a straight line. Attack ground is a coin toss. The firefly rocket is a strong counter to tactician.

Attack ground at max range to get the straight line effect.

Everything play axis but highest win rates matchups are both sov vs axis faction..

Highest winrates are OKW and Ost vs USF and UKF. You are factually wrong.


OKW vs USF 64%

OKW vs UKF 70%


Ost vs USF 63%

Ost vs UKF 66%


Sov vs Ost 53%

Sov vs. OKW 52%

Panzer Tactician is a little too good of a get out of jail free card. BUT if it cost a little more, say 5-10 munitions more, then over using it will cost you the ability to buy LMG42’s and lay teller mines etc.

Agree with that.

Highest winrates are OKW and Ost vs USF and UKF. You are factually wrong.


OKW vs USF 64%

OKW vs UKF 70%


Ost vs USF 63%

Ost vs UKF 66%


Sov vs Ost 53%

Sov vs. OKW 52%

USF and especially UKF were barely used in the tourney. Soviets were used 30% more than USF and UKF combined.