Counter double Obersoldaten on open maps like moscow
26 Aug 2018, 09:22 AM
#1
Posts: 149
With USF often i have troubles with this, in an equal control map game, i have all my vetted bar rifles and maybe one or 2 50 cal. , and a sherman, okw has obers + raketen e and some volks or p4 to protect flanking. In a fuel advantage situation i would prefer scott + jackson, but normally rushing scott while he has a p4 in a minute is risky. So these Obers shred my rifles models so easily, and double ober that flank that squishy 50 cal could kill it easily on retrat with that long range dps. With soviet ISU or Katy are always good, with brit normally i camo commando squads and dobule bren tommies has better long range engages with ober, but with Usf, i'm always in trouble. Obviously in open maps. Thank you for advice.
26 Aug 2018, 18:49 PM
#2
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
I'm afraid you have the right idea, you want indirect fire with HE to force to Obers to move or bleed and even risk getting wiped, or constantly smoke them just to negate their DPS.
Pack Howitzer is a good tool to use against them, that requires no fuel, but you won't get MGs with him. You could try using Pathfinder/Paratrooper LMGs to fight them at their own game.
Pack Howitzer is a good tool to use against them, that requires no fuel, but you won't get MGs with him. You could try using Pathfinder/Paratrooper LMGs to fight them at their own game.
26 Aug 2018, 19:09 PM
#3
Posts: 149
With USF often i have troubles with this, in an equal control map game, i have all my vetted bar rifles and maybe one or 2 50 cal. , and a sherman, okw has obers + raketen e and some volks or p4 to protect flanking. In a fuel advantage situation i would prefer scott + jackson, but normally rushing scott while he has a p4 in a minute is risky. So these Obers shred my rifles models so easily, and double ober that flank that squishy 50 cal could kill it easily on retrat with that long range dps. With soviet ISU or Katy are always good, with brit normally i camo commando squads and dobule bren tommies has better long range engages with ober, but with Usf, i'm always in trouble. Obviously in open maps. Thank you for advice.Yeah, i will try captain with pak howi, i avoid it too often for light veichles and suppression, but i can call the mg at least with airborne. Anyway i must hope to not face fortifications with lefh and Okw simcity with no priest.
Anyway i feel usf a little bit in a bad spot vs OKW until you have armor to support, too much bleed with that long range infsntry.
26 Aug 2018, 21:07 PM
#4
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
LT is the more popular officer in the current meta, USF is on the backfoot vs OKW, but I hope the faction will receive a small boost in the next patch. Hang in there and fight on for Uncle Sam.
27 Aug 2018, 07:20 AM
#5
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
With USF often i have troubles with this, in an equal control map game, i have all my vetted bar rifles and maybe one or 2 50 cal. , and a sherman, okw has obers + raketen e and some volks or p4 to protect flanking. In a fuel advantage situation i would prefer scott + jackson, but normally rushing scott while he has a p4 in a minute is risky. So these Obers shred my rifles models so easily, and double ober that flank that squishy 50 cal could kill it easily on retrat with that long range dps. With soviet ISU or Katy are always good, with brit normally i camo commando squads and dobule bren tommies has better long range engages with ober, but with Usf, i'm always in trouble. Obviously in open maps. Thank you for advice.
You can build a pair of position with upgrade deep in your territory to cover your flanks or a specific area.
This works well if your opponent went T2 and don't have an ISG.
Otherwise Sherman first if you went T1 is a better idea than Scott unless you dominate your opponent.
27 Aug 2018, 08:04 AM
#6
Posts: 149
You can build a pair of position with upgrade deep in your territory to cover your flanks or a specific area.
This works well if your opponent went T2 and don't have an ISG.
Otherwise Sherman first if you went T1 is a better idea than Scott unless you dominate your opponent.
Yeah maybe i can cover flank with this, but that will not resolve my problem. Anyway normally i go sherman first if i'm not behind , it helps me, tanks vs tanks is ok, but i can't push okw support weapon. For example: 3 bar rifles, liutenent, one RE with zooks, 2 50 cal and a sherman. Sometimes i backtech for captain + 57 mm. But when obers come out is a problem, i will face: 2 vetted volks if i got one wipe or 3, double obers, one stumpio, one mg, one rak, one p4. Sometimes one leig. On open map i don't know what to do, i start spam smoke to close the gap with obers and mgs. But keeping control map cost me a lot more mp than my opponents. I need scott, but it comes later, maybe rush scott and preserve units without push too much until jackson come out could be a good idea, waiting with double AT zooks squad. Anyway i think i will try pak howi (like Outsider suggested me) and call in one paratrooper squad + one 50 cal trading light veichels for pak howi and i will see.
27 Aug 2018, 08:56 AM
#7
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Why don't your turn your Sherman on AI Shell? If obers are the greatest threat then focus them down and you may get a wipe in the process. If you manage carefully your sherman and keep your REzook squad nearby, the Pz4 shouldn't be a problem.
You also don't say anything about your commander choice which may be crutial to unlock your situation.
What I mean is the M8 is more than enough to deal with Obers and cost less than the Scott (and come sooner), or you can call 1 or 2 HT mortars and play more defensively with M1919 instead of BARs. Ultimately you also have the pershing and Rangers etc...
You also don't say anything about your commander choice which may be crutial to unlock your situation.
What I mean is the M8 is more than enough to deal with Obers and cost less than the Scott (and come sooner), or you can call 1 or 2 HT mortars and play more defensively with M1919 instead of BARs. Ultimately you also have the pershing and Rangers etc...
27 Aug 2018, 09:36 AM
#8
Posts: 310
I got 2 options for you fella.
1) Pick Tactical Support Company, equip your Rifles with both LMG and BAR (you also go Lt with double BAR). Your Riflemen will be effective in ALL ranges, thus they will destroy Obersoldaten in every fight. It's important to keep your Lt ALIVE and get him to vet 3. Bombard the hell out of the OKW player and you got this.
2. Pick Heavy Cavalry Company and get 2 Rangers to accompany your Riflemen in every fight. By the time Rangers hit vet 1, they are unstoppable and they literally lead the way. You just pass through Obersoldaten and they die.
PS : To control OKW blobs etc, go for the AA Half Track, which is simply amazing. Keep Echelons with bazookas close to it for repairs and protection against vehicles. Enjoy OKW players leaving the game
1) Pick Tactical Support Company, equip your Rifles with both LMG and BAR (you also go Lt with double BAR). Your Riflemen will be effective in ALL ranges, thus they will destroy Obersoldaten in every fight. It's important to keep your Lt ALIVE and get him to vet 3. Bombard the hell out of the OKW player and you got this.
2. Pick Heavy Cavalry Company and get 2 Rangers to accompany your Riflemen in every fight. By the time Rangers hit vet 1, they are unstoppable and they literally lead the way. You just pass through Obersoldaten and they die.
PS : To control OKW blobs etc, go for the AA Half Track, which is simply amazing. Keep Echelons with bazookas close to it for repairs and protection against vehicles. Enjoy OKW players leaving the game
"L is for L Shaped Ambush"
-Orion Training Group
-Orion Training Group
27 Aug 2018, 09:57 AM
#9
Posts: 149
I got 2 options for you fella.
1) Pick Tactical Support Company, equip your Rifles with both LMG and BAR (you also go Lt with double BAR). Your Riflemen will be effective in ALL ranges, thus they will destroy Obersoldaten in every fight. It's important to keep your Lt ALIVE and get him to vet 3. Bombard the hell out of the OKW player and you got this.
2. Pick Heavy Cavalry Company and get 2 Rangers to accompany your Riflemen in every fight. By the time Rangers hit vet 1, they are unstoppable and they literally lead the way. You just pass through Obersoldaten and they die.
PS : To control OKW blobs etc, go for the AA Half Track, which is simply amazing. Keep Echelons with bazookas close to it for repairs and protection against vehicles. Enjoy OKW players leaving the game
Nice
i love both suggestions , i will try it. Thank you Overlord.
27 Aug 2018, 10:01 AM
#10
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Nice
Yeah...except they dont work. OKW gets Obers to counter Riflemen, guess why? Because after vet 2 they shred any US infantry for fun unless you manage to flank them with CQC units like Rangers or Thompson Paras.
AA HT doesn´t work in late game and isn´t even good in early game because it doesn´t have smoke and OKW always has access to Raks.
You counter Obers with vehicles NOT with infantry.
27 Aug 2018, 10:05 AM
#11
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Can't wait for the replay
27 Aug 2018, 10:06 AM
#12
Posts: 310
Yeah...except they dont work. OKW gets Obers to counter Riflemen, guess why? Because after vet 2 they shred any US infantry for fun unless you manage to flank them with CQC units like Rangers or Thompson Paras.
AA HT doesn´t work in late game and isn´t even good in early game because it doesn´t have smoke and OKW always has access to Raks.
You counter Obers with vehicles NOT with infantry.
Nothing works 100% and no plan survives contact with the enemy. The same way that Wehrmacht's MG spam doesn't always work, the same way this won't work 100%
"L is for L Shaped Ambush"
-Orion Training Group
-Orion Training Group
27 Aug 2018, 10:59 AM
#13
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Nothing works 100% and no plan survives contact with the enemy. The same way that Wehrmacht's MG spam doesn't always work, the same way this won't work 100%
Except what you suggest is the opposite of how the game is designed. Obersoldaten are designed to be OKW´s counter to infantry. They are a specialist unit with the sole role of killing infantry. Just like AT guns are designed to counter tanks. You dont build a tank to counter an AT gun either. For the same reason you don´t build Rangers to counter Obers.
27 Aug 2018, 11:10 AM
#14
Posts: 310
Except what you suggest is the opposite of how the game is designed. Obersoldaten are designed to be OKW´s counter to infantry. They are a specialist unit with the sole role of killing infantry. Just like AT guns are designed to counter tanks. You dont build a tank to counter an AT gun either. For the same reason you don´t build Rangers to counter Obers.
So, i guess that even vet 2-3 Rifles can't beat vet 0 Obers, because by the time they hit the field, Riflemen have earned some veterancy
"L is for L Shaped Ambush"
-Orion Training Group
-Orion Training Group
27 Aug 2018, 15:38 PM
#15
Posts: 2742
Obers have zero anti tank capabilities. Use this knowledge to your advantage.
A pair of obers is 800 manpower that can feed a sherman quite a bit of vet.
By the time Obers are out in pairs the allied player needs to have combined arms out or arriving shortly.
A pair of obers is 800 manpower that can feed a sherman quite a bit of vet.
By the time Obers are out in pairs the allied player needs to have combined arms out or arriving shortly.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
5 Oct 2018, 04:34 AM
#16
Posts: 888
If you're playing USF and can only hold 50 - 60% of the map you've already lost the game.
5 Oct 2018, 15:02 PM
#17
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
So, i guess that even vet 2-3 Rifles can't beat vet 0 Obers, because by the time they hit the field, Riflemen have earned some veterancy
With 2 BARs at vet2 you can fight them off, but eventually they will simply trade better, specially in pairs.
5 Oct 2018, 21:05 PM
#18
Posts: 3053
Explosives are the best solution to obers. If he’s not paying attention, nades can get a wipe pretty easily and even if he is then pack howies, Shermans, and Scotts will be a huge problem for him. How you go about that is a bit situational and up to personal preference but there are enough options that getting at least one along with riflemen nades is pretty doable. Rangers with Thompsons and lmg paras also do serviceably well against them, and paras will probably out-trade them fairly heavily since they’re cheaper.
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