I think AP rounds would push it too far in the other direction. Consider that with AP rounds it could counter snipers and light vehicles with ease and still have it's current role purpose I think that's a bit much. MAYBE with vet 2 or 3 seen as I can't recall ever managing that.
I quite like the m20 for territory harassment and sneaky mines but as many have said I find it's not something I choose often due to the AAHT being a better unit in almost all regards. The m20 has basically no shock value to it. I mean if it at least had a degree of useful infantry suppression I'd be happy with it as is with perhaps a slightly reduced MP cost.
Edit: Actually one thing I'd like to change was already said by another poster in that I'd like a lowering the vet requirements. As I said earlier I can't recall ever getting one to vet 2 never mind 3.
M20 Utility Car Rework
22 Aug 2018, 11:26 AM
#21
Posts: 71
22 Aug 2018, 14:41 PM
#22
Posts: 1096
I think replace the M20 with the 47mm AT gyn (think that is the small one) and put the M20 in the starting building. It is then unlocked once you tech to LT or Cap.
22 Aug 2018, 16:19 PM
#23
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
The M20 does get penetration on it's main gun at vet3, but it's so low to begin with that it hardly matters, you could buff it's penetration to be as much as the HMG .50 cal now.
22 Aug 2018, 18:22 PM
#24
Posts: 1220
The M20 does get penetration on it's main gun at vet3, but it's so low to begin with that it hardly matters, you could buff it's penetration to be as much as the HMG .50 cal now.exactly it doesn't feel like .50 now
22 Aug 2018, 21:07 PM
#25
Posts: 14
m20 would be nice if it started at tier 1 like ukf and okw vehicles
23 Aug 2018, 12:03 PM
#26
Posts: 177
Not to derail the topic too much, but in addition to the obvious MP cost decrease, as has been discussed in a few threads recently swapping around the tech might be a good solution.
It may have made sense in the past when USF early game was overpowered, but at the moment it makes absolutely no sense to have both AT options in the Captain tier (Stuart, AT gun) and both suppression options (MG, flak HT) in the Lieutenant tier. On top of that the Lieutenant tier has two anti-infantry light vehicles (M20 and flak HT). This is very WTF design.
So why not swap the Flak HT with the AT gun? Then the tiers make sense:
LT: MG for suppression, AT gun for AT, M20 for harassment
Cpt: Flak HT for suppression, Stuart for AT, Howitzer for harassment
This even makes sense from an immersion standpoint - LT has the basic tools, but if you can hold out for that little extra fuel for Captain, you get some higher shock-value units to play around with.
It may have made sense in the past when USF early game was overpowered, but at the moment it makes absolutely no sense to have both AT options in the Captain tier (Stuart, AT gun) and both suppression options (MG, flak HT) in the Lieutenant tier. On top of that the Lieutenant tier has two anti-infantry light vehicles (M20 and flak HT). This is very WTF design.
So why not swap the Flak HT with the AT gun? Then the tiers make sense:
LT: MG for suppression, AT gun for AT, M20 for harassment
Cpt: Flak HT for suppression, Stuart for AT, Howitzer for harassment
This even makes sense from an immersion standpoint - LT has the basic tools, but if you can hold out for that little extra fuel for Captain, you get some higher shock-value units to play around with.
23 Aug 2018, 12:42 PM
#27
Posts: 1220
Not to derail the topic too much, but in addition to the obvious MP cost decrease, as has been discussed in a few threads recently swapping around the tech might be a good solution.
It may have made sense in the past when USF early game was overpowered, but at the moment it makes absolutely no sense to have both AT options in the Captain tier (Stuart, AT gun) and both suppression options (MG, flak HT) in the Lieutenant tier. On top of that the Lieutenant tier has two anti-infantry light vehicles (M20 and flak HT). This is very WTF design.
So why not swap the Flak HT with the AT gun? Then the tiers make sense:
LT: MG for suppression, AT gun for AT, M20 for harassment
Cpt: Flak HT for suppression, Stuart for AT, Howitzer for harassment
This even makes sense from an immersion standpoint - LT has the basic tools, but if you can hold out for that little extra fuel for Captain, you get some higher shock-value units to play around with.
maybe just swap flak HT with stuart ? stuart + mg and aa halftruck with at gun sounds like good design
LT - stuart, mg , m20 CPT - aa halftruck , at gun , howitzer
23 Aug 2018, 13:47 PM
#28
Posts: 469
give it armor penetration!
23 Aug 2018, 15:29 PM
#29
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
Not to derail the topic too much, but in addition to the obvious MP cost decrease, as has been discussed in a few threads recently swapping around the tech might be a good solution.
It may have made sense in the past when USF early game was overpowered, but at the moment it makes absolutely no sense to have both AT options in the Captain tier (Stuart, AT gun) and both suppression options (MG, flak HT) in the Lieutenant tier. On top of that the Lieutenant tier has two anti-infantry light vehicles (M20 and flak HT). This is very WTF design.
So why not swap the Flak HT with the AT gun? Then the tiers make sense:
LT: MG for suppression, AT gun for AT, M20 for harassment
Cpt: Flak HT for suppression, Stuart for AT, Howitzer for harassment
This even makes sense from an immersion standpoint - LT has the basic tools, but if you can hold out for that little extra fuel for Captain, you get some higher shock-value units to play around with.
You could make LT a little cheaper fuel wise and Captain a bit more expensive then too.
23 Aug 2018, 16:24 PM
#30
1 
Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
Nobody would ever go captain like that again.
Way easier to get mgs and stall with bazooka REs for fast sherman than spend more fuel for stuart.
Way easier to get mgs and stall with bazooka REs for fast sherman than spend more fuel for stuart.
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23 Aug 2018, 16:42 PM
#31
Posts: 177
Nobody would ever go captain like that again.
Way easier to get mgs and stall with bazooka REs for fast sherman than spend more fuel for stuart.
That's probably a good point. Although if it was really that easy I think a lot more people would be going LT at the moment anyway.
How do you feel about the other options for mixing the tiers? Combining all the possibilities that mix at least 1 AI and 1 AT per tier...
| LT | CPT | |
| 1 | MG, AT gun, M20 | AAHT, Stuart, Howitzer |
| 2 | MG, Stuart, M20 | AAHT, AT gun, Howitzer |
| 3 | AAHT, Stuart, M20 | MG, AT gun, Howitzer |
| 4 | AAHT, AT gun, M20 | MG, Stuart, Howitzer |
P.S. If this is derailing the M20 discussion too much I can always post it as a thread. Or if it's already been discussed to death and I didn't notice, I can shut up
23 Aug 2018, 16:48 PM
#32
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
That's probably a good point. Although if it was really that easy I think a lot more people would be going LT at the moment anyway.
How do you feel about the other options for mixing the tiers? Combining all the possibilities that mix at least 1 AI and 1 AT per tier...
LT CPT
1 MG, AT gun, M20 AAHT, Stuart, Howitzer
2 MG, Stuart, M20 AAHT, AT gun, Howitzer
3 AAHT, Stuart, M20 MG, AT gun, Howitzer
4 AAHT, AT gun, M20 MG, Stuart, Howitzer
P.S. If this is derailing the M20 discussion too much I can always post it as a thread. Or if it's already been discussed to death and I didn't notice, I can shut up
#2 makes the most sense, but I'm not convinced the tech needs to be swapped at all. I think it's more a problem of balancing out LT vehicles better. Putting mg and at gun together in a tier would be too good, nobody would every go for the other tier.
USF has problems built into the fundamental design of the faction. It's really not that bad right now though.
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23 Aug 2018, 16:50 PM
#33
Posts: 3260
I've always thought 2 was a pretty neat setup. The AAHT and AT gun support each other well as do the .50 cal and Stuart. Lieutenant gets team weapon suppression and vehicular AT, Captain gets team weapon AT and vehicular suppression.
Both tiers also get two AI units that work well together (AAHT with Pack Howitzer, .50 cal with M20) and one AT unit they can build reactively (Stuart and AT gun).
The Lieutenant set is much more mobile and aggressive, the Captain set is more static but very good at defending and scales well into the late game.
Both tiers also get two AI units that work well together (AAHT with Pack Howitzer, .50 cal with M20) and one AT unit they can build reactively (Stuart and AT gun).
The Lieutenant set is much more mobile and aggressive, the Captain set is more static but very good at defending and scales well into the late game.
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