Yes, so why are you expecting them to perform equally?
I don't, I'm just pointing out they both sit on exact same shelf.
Both are unable to hit a broad side of the barn.
King Tiger balance fix: smoke launchers
5 Jul 2018, 07:42 AM
#21
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I don't, I'm just pointing out they both sit on exact same shelf.
Both are unable to hit a broad side of the barn.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
5 Jul 2018, 09:32 AM
#22
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
We're back in the wet dream where KT dominates its intended counters?
I specifically mentioned smoke launchers as a solution that wouldn't completely nullify the effectiveness of TDs as counters (because of the attack ground mechanics) while giving the KT at least a chance to escape an engagement every once in a while instead of just being a max range XP piñata.
5 Jul 2018, 10:38 AM
#23
Posts: 1220
All heavy tanks should be resistant to faust because its ridiculus that 25muni can "kill" your kingtiger
5 Jul 2018, 11:47 AM
#24
Posts: 503 | Subs: 1
All heavy tanks should be resistant to faust because its ridiculus that 25muni can "kill" your kingtiger
A better threshold for heavy tanks would be nice, but full immunity seems a bit too much.
5 Jul 2018, 12:09 PM
#25
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
A better threshold for heavy tanks would be nice, but full immunity seems a bit too much.
They already have, I think heavy tanks don't have the guaranteed engine crit by snare once health is less than 100% that regular vehicles have. They seem to have a random yes/no crit chance for every snare hit.
Still, it would be a good idea to make them invulnerable to engine crit snares from the front. Only rear armor hits by snares would have a chance to deal engine crits. This would be a good trade off for their slow speed and the fact they have trouble backing away from infantry.
I'll add all reasonable proposals to the OP.
5 Jul 2018, 12:39 PM
#26
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
I specifically mentioned smoke launchers as a solution that wouldn't completely nullify the effectiveness of TDs as counters (because of the attack ground mechanics) while giving the KT at least a chance to escape an engagement every once in a while instead of just being a max range XP piñata.
If a KT need another escape button, then every single tank needs one. KT escape button is its HP pool and Armor, you need at least 2 dedicated TDs to stop it reliably, so with a KT you force your opponent to invest around 250/300 fuel and 600/700 manpower on pure AT only to keep it from rolling all over your defenses.
I don't know what you want more.
Now, I suspect people are complaining about it because it is mainly used at last wild card, the kind of you click on it instead of surrender and see what's going on.
Before it was really effective and turn tides more than often, today it is not the case anymore and requires a better army composition in support.
5 Jul 2018, 12:58 PM
#27
10 
Posts: 4785 | Subs: 3
If a KT need another escape button, then every single tank needs one. KT escape button is its HP pool and Armor, you need at least 2 dedicated TDs to stop it reliably, so with a KT you force your opponent to invest around 250/300 fuel and 600/700 manpower on pure AT only to keep it from rolling all over your defenses.
I don't know what you want more.
The thing is: By the time a KT is arriving every opponent in every gamemode from 1v1 to 4v4 has already at least an AT Gun and a TD ready which is often enough to force a KT out of an engagement. If your opponent then manages to crit the engine the KT is basically a Slug trying to escape a wildfire and will most likely succumb to the AT fire because it can't really defend itself
I would love to see some more heavy tank action tbh
5 Jul 2018, 13:20 PM
#28
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
If a KT need another escape button, then every single tank needs one. KT escape button is its HP pool and Armor, you need at least 2 dedicated TDs to stop it reliably, so with a KT you force your opponent to invest around 250/300 fuel and 600/700 manpower on pure AT only to keep it from rolling all over your defenses
They generally don't have to invest anything because right now the counters to a KT are all mainline units that will be around anway by the time it hits the field, like 1-2 AT guns and 1-2 TDs. The problem the KT has over other tanks in regards to being able to disengage properly is its immensely slow speed and a near crawl once it gets engine critted giving it no chance to escape kiting TDs.
Also, I have no idea why you keep referring to it as a wild card when it costs the immense amount of 720mp and 280fu. If a player can afford to save up that kind of resources, he deserves a good tank instead of the highly-situational-but-generally-POS we have now. It shouldn't be able to tip entire matches over in favour of the Axis just by turning up, that's agreed on, which is exactly why most proposals are moderate buffs that would make it less shit but not as overpowered as before.
5 Jul 2018, 13:28 PM
#29
Posts: 3260
The KT doesn't have a hard time surviving if you're smart with it.
What it needs is a consistent gun rather than being the B4 on wheels it is at the moment. The best suggestion I've seen is a broad AoE with a low damage peak like the Brummbar got in SBP. That'd make it very consistent at damaging infantry but unlikely to one-hit wipe squads.
What it needs is a consistent gun rather than being the B4 on wheels it is at the moment. The best suggestion I've seen is a broad AoE with a low damage peak like the Brummbar got in SBP. That'd make it very consistent at damaging infantry but unlikely to one-hit wipe squads.
5 Jul 2018, 15:31 PM
#30
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
They generally don't have to invest anything because right now the counters to a KT are all mainline units that will be around anway by the time it hits the field, like 1-2 AT guns and 1-2 TDs. The problem the KT has over other tanks in regards to being able to disengage properly is its immensely slow speed and a near crawl once it gets engine critted giving it no chance to escape kiting TDs.
Also, I have no idea why you keep referring to it as a wild card when it costs the immense amount of 720mp and 280fu. If a player can afford to save up that kind of resources, he deserves a good tank instead of the highly-situational-but-generally-POS we have now. It shouldn't be able to tip entire matches over in favour of the Axis just by turning up, that's agreed on, which is exactly why most proposals are moderate buffs that would make it less shit but not as overpowered as before.
Then you have them as well to support your KT.
5 Jul 2018, 15:58 PM
#31
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Honestly not sure why they had to increase the scatter that much. I can´t even remember a single time when calling in a KT proofed to be really worth it since DBP. IS2 was always frustrating to play with because of how bad it scattered. Now they made KT the same, very weird way to "balance" a unit.
Would be pretty easy to fix the KT:
- lower veterancy requirements (WAY too high at the moment, it´s insane how long it takes to even get KT to vet 2)
- reduce scatter while slightly reducing it´s AOE
- slightly increase turret traverse
That way it would become less of a RNG canon, reliably hit infantry and be able to use it´s veterancy better. That´s all it needs really, 375 armour, 240 damage per shot with good penetration and range and very good HP would be enough to compensate for it´s slow speed and insane cost.
Would be pretty easy to fix the KT:
- lower veterancy requirements (WAY too high at the moment, it´s insane how long it takes to even get KT to vet 2)
- reduce scatter while slightly reducing it´s AOE
- slightly increase turret traverse
That way it would become less of a RNG canon, reliably hit infantry and be able to use it´s veterancy better. That´s all it needs really, 375 armour, 240 damage per shot with good penetration and range and very good HP would be enough to compensate for it´s slow speed and insane cost.
5 Jul 2018, 16:00 PM
#32
Posts: 2742
ITT everyone argues KT stats and how to kill/lose KTs. Only one post refers to actually using the KT in a gameplay role, (defending a decisive territory point: a VP). To which the only response was a playercard demand.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
5 Jul 2018, 17:04 PM
#33
Posts: 911
ITT everyone argues KT stats and how to kill/lose KTs. Only one post refers to actually using the KT in a gameplay role, (defending a decisive territory point: a VP). To which the only response was a playercard demand.
Because just saying " just defend the CP with the KT" is easier said than done.
For one there are two other cps on the map that the KT isn't defending.
Imagine my playercard is here
5 Jul 2018, 18:23 PM
#34
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
I hardly know why people try to balance these types of units anymore. The balance team does what they want, when they want. Your best bet to influencing them is praying to RNGesus and telling top players to throw their chances with OKW in gcs2 by getting a KT and then showing off how trash it is on stream.
5 Jul 2018, 19:15 PM
#35
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Random thought, would making Heavy tanks have a lower threshold to crit through snares be good/bad ?
IIRC right now it's global 75%, but what would be the consequences to lower it to say 50%-30% ?
About KT specifically, what blackdream says.
IIRC right now it's global 75%, but what would be the consequences to lower it to say 50%-30% ?
About KT specifically, what blackdream says.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
5 Jul 2018, 19:31 PM
#36
1 Posts: 1276
Turret rotation speed could help. Usually if one tanks gets behind a kt, it is dead.
The whole point of that is to make it weak to flanks due to its high frontal armor and HP, its a 'wall' and should be treated as such, therefore should be weak to med tank flanks.
5 Jul 2018, 22:25 PM
#37
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Random thought, would making Heavy tanks have a lower threshold to crit through snares be good/bad ?
IIRC right now it's global 75%, but what would be the consequences to lower it to say 50%-30% ?
About KT specifically, what blackdream says.
Its simply lowering the risk, making it much more forgiving to play recklessly.
It also impacts general counterplay.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
5 Jul 2018, 22:48 PM
#38
Posts: 3053
If smoke laiunchers would make the difference between your kt surviving or not you're probably doing something wrong anyway. As with every single other vehicle in the game, the kt needs combined arms support if you don't want to lose it to its counters that are supposed to counter it.
+1
The KT doesn't have a hard time surviving if you're smart with it.
What it needs is a consistent gun rather than being the B4 on wheels it is at the moment. The best suggestion I've seen is a broad AoE with a low damage peak like the Brummbar got in SBP. That'd make it very consistent at damaging infantry but unlikely to one-hit wipe squads.
+1
 | Playercard of LoopDloop | |||||||||||||||||||
|
5 Jul 2018, 22:50 PM
#39
Posts: 1096
Random thought, would making Heavy tanks have a lower threshold to crit through snares be good/bad ?
IIRC right now it's global 75%, but what would be the consequences to lower it to say 50%-30% ?
About KT specifically, what blackdream says.
This would definitely help.
Would love to see all heavy tanks and spgs reworked tbh....especially the KV2 and ISU152
6 Jul 2018, 01:47 AM
#40
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Its simply lowering the risk, making it much more forgiving to play recklessly.
It also impacts general counterplay.
Isn't the risk right now, too high for too low reward ?
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
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