Give me a reason why KV8 is OP?

I retreat my statement.
After last game I understand what you guys mean when saying that your units were obliterated by KV-8. Something have to be done, as I am sure that wasn't intentional design decision.
I sustain my opinion regarding countering it and trying to fight it with Panzer Grenadiers though.

I was confident you would, eventually.

And yes, Shreks certainly have no business vs KV8, now, or ever.

Frankly the attitudes that "KV8 is fine, L2P" in this thread are just making me mad.

I'm discontinuing discussion in this thread with people who have no interest in objective balance discussion.

Bye.

Maybe third time is a charm*

A bigger deal needs to be made of this - it is becoming abundantly clear that the devs are overlooking the issue, unless they plan on releasing another patch relatively soon addressing heavy tank stats.

Frankly, as the meta of this patch develops and KV-8 commanders becomes more popular due to Shock buff and MG42 nerf granting much more viability to T2/T4 builds, this is just going to spiral out of control.

there is a reason why the balance devs are purposely ignoring the op soviet units while nerfing german units at every opportunity ... they want to please the whiny russians in the CIS and beyond who are already inflamed at the campaign.

noobelite, we get it. youre not contributing anything to this thread at this point. youre not going to get him to leave, if anything youll just start an argument and derail the thread.

panzerjager, are you hoping if you whine enough theyll do the same for you? you may be disappointed to know, the devs dont actually balance like that.

back on topic, i talked to pqumsieh about kv8 a little. he said he thought the kv8 is balanced currently. i brought up how powerful its gun was and suggested possibly giving it a longer burst but with less dps, so its total damage per burst stayed the same. that would allow it to still kill infantry dumb enough to stay and fight, but give retreating units a better chance. he said the unit is designed to cause shock by killing quickly though.

i then raised the point about its cost compared to the brummbar and ostwind. he said brummbar is much better vs tanks and the ostwind has better range and also doubles as AA.

i dont entirely agree with his reasoning. i think kv8 would still clear the map just as fast if it took 3-4 seconds to kill a squad instead of just 2. im also not sure the kv8s AT and ostwinds 5 extra range and AA warrant their cost relative to the kv8.

he did say hes not entirely against ever changing the unit, he just wants to see how the meta changes first. the is2 and shock changes have improved those doctrines, but on the other hand panther is now (arguably) easier to get. well just have to wait and see

yet for some reason your HEAVY tank costs quite a bit less than a medium tank...

+1

A lot of the soviet only players who defend KV8 saying its a "heavy tank" dug themselves a hole when they realize it costs almost the same as a medium tank.

KV8 badly needs a cost increase or armor reduction.

+1

A lot of the soviet only players who defend KV8 saying its a "heavy tank" dug themselves a hole when they realize it costs almost the same as a medium tank.

KV8 badly needs a cost increase or armor reduction.

i dont think its armor is an issue. its tough, but it should be. its too effective for its cost though. i suggest a cost increase and lowering its dps a bit. just have to hope that relic will feel the same soon.

there is a reason why the balance devs are purposely ignoring the op soviet units while nerfing german units at every opportunity ... they want to please the whiny russians in the CIS and beyond who are already inflamed at the campaign.

You actually believe Relic balance devs are intentionally trying to skew balance in favour of the Russians in order to please Russians who were upset about the campaign? This is breathtakingly stupid. Even in some wacky, flat earth, faked Moon landings alternative universe it wouldn't make sense as most of those people did not even purchase the game or have already left it...

noobelite, we get it. youre not contributing anything to this thread at this point. youre not going to get him to leave, if anything youll just start an argument and derail the thread.

I'm just quoting him like I'm quoting you, and he said, not me. I didn't even ask him to say it, he did it on his own.

back on topic, i talked to pqumsieh about kv8 a little. he said he thought the kv8 is balanced currently. i brought up how powerful its gun was and suggested possibly giving it a longer burst but with less dps, so its total damage per burst stayed the same. that would allow it to still kill infantry dumb enough to stay and fight, but give retreating units a better chance. he said the unit is designed to cause shock by killing quickly though.

i then raised the point about its cost compared to the brummbar and ostwind. he said brummbar is much better vs tanks and the ostwind has better range and also doubles as AA.

i dont entirely agree with his reasoning. i think kv8 would still clear the map just as fast if it took 3-4 seconds to kill a squad instead of just 2. im also not sure the kv8s AT and ostwinds 5 extra range and AA warrant their cost relative to the kv8.

he did say hes not entirely against ever changing the unit, he just wants to see how the meta changes first. the is2 and shock changes have improved those doctrines, but on the other hand panther is now (arguably) easier to get. well just have to wait and see

I am quickly losing faith in this balance team.

To be fair, I think the Soviets have a lot less to counter a KV-8 with than even the Germans do if you were to manage to steal one

man i steal a KV8 in a 2v2 once... believe me after i repair it enemy pushing with massive infantry (like 8-9 squads) and i roll that monster in, it killed like 30 after chase them back to their fuel point where they got 2 SU85 sitting there, i manage to get my KV8 back to safty and use it to push with my 2 pather and my teammate's 2 panther and p4 to their base, it is like instant win, i see a conscript try to throw out a antitank nade but he just got BBQed before it throw out.

thread title: give me a reason why kv8 is op?

answer: because I can circle strafe an isolated kv8 with 2 p4s at full health, and while using one to physically sit behind the kv8 to stop it from backing up, pew pew pew deflection shots of its armor for about 20-30? seconds before his support units catch up and drives me off. what did the kv8 do? die? nope, vet up and live to fight some more

back on topic, i talked to pqumsieh about kv8 a little. he said he thought the kv8 is balanced currently. i brought up how powerful its gun was and suggested possibly giving it a longer burst but with less dps, so its total damage per burst stayed the same. that would allow it to still kill infantry dumb enough to stay and fight, but give retreating units a better chance. he said the unit is designed to cause shock by killing quickly though.

i then raised the point about its cost compared to the brummbar and ostwind. he said brummbar is much better vs tanks and the ostwind has better range and also doubles as AA.

i dont entirely agree with his reasoning. i think kv8 would still clear the map just as fast if it took 3-4 seconds to kill a squad instead of just 2. im also not sure the kv8s AT and ostwinds 5 extra range and AA warrant their cost relative to the kv8.

he did say hes not entirely against ever changing the unit, he just wants to see how the meta changes first. the is2 and shock changes have improved those doctrines, but on the other hand panther is now (arguably) easier to get. well just have to wait and see

a flame halftrack is a shock unit because it doesent have staying power. a heavy tank is the definition of staying power

thread title: give me a reason why kv8 is op?

answer: because I can circle strafe an isolated kv8 with 2 p4s at full health, and while using one to physically sit behind the kv8 to stop it from backing up, pew pew pew deflection shots of its armor for about 20-30? seconds before his support units catch up and drives me off. what did the kv8 do? die? nope, vet up and live to fight some more

On the topic, I think the KV8 is a little too good atm and needs some adjusting but whenever people post stories like these...they just smack of hyperbole and don't do anything to support balance discussions. Post a replay instead of sharing stories. Far too often players complaining about balance exaggerate A LOT in their game anecdotes.

On the topic, I think the KV8 is a little too good atm and needs some adjusting but whenever people post stories like these...they just smack of hyperbole and don't do anything to support balance discussions. Post a replay instead of sharing stories. Far too often players complaining about balance exaggerate A LOT in their game anecdotes.

http://www.coh2.org/replays/8022/kv8-discussion-reference

like 3/4 the way in IIRC the battle takes place on the north eastern VP

thread title: give me a reason why kv8 is op?

answer: because I can circle strafe an isolated kv8 with 2 p4s at full health, and while using one to physically sit behind the kv8 to stop it from backing up, pew pew pew deflection shots of its armor for about 20-30? seconds before his support units catch up and drives me off. what did the kv8 do? die? nope, vet up and live to fight some more

I had a feeling you might post that. First kv8 I've built in 1v1 and tbh I went the doc to try shocks.

The moment you saw the kv8 you gave up in the chat and ended any aggression across the map. My kv8 barely engaged after that because you holed up in your base and let me cap everything with barely any contest.

Also stugs would've helped you much more vs the kv8, 30 additional pen, extra range, rate of fire, etc.

I had a feeling you might post that. First kv8 I've built in 1v1 and tbh I went the doc to try shocks.

The moment you saw the kv8 you gave up in the chat and ended any aggression across the map. My kv8 barely engaged after that because you holed up in your base and let me cap everything with barely any contest.

Also stugs would've helped you much more vs the kv8, 30 additional pen, extra range, rate of fire, etc.

I didnt post the replay to showcase your gameplay or mine, simply as a lazy shortcut to get the file up to highlight the issues with the kv8 since I dont know how to make little youtube videos of the scene.

Theres plenty of ways I could have played that game better but the fact remains the kv8 tanks like a champ, which I believe is disproportionate for its cost effectiveness

Cool - thanks for making the effort to post it - will watch.

+1

A lot of the soviet only players who defend KV8 saying its a "heavy tank" dug themselves a hole when they realize it costs almost the same as a medium tank.

KV8 badly needs a cost increase or armor reduction.

In your previous post you cried that it destroy's infantry too quickly and now you cry because it's armor is too strong,seriously make up your mind...
It's a Heavy Tank,so the armor reduction is out of the question,why would you use your infantry on the best Anti-Infantry unit in the game,logic much?....maybe damage reduction would be more relevant/appealing

I didnt post the replay to showcase your gameplay or mine, simply as a lazy shortcut to get the file up to highlight the issues with the kv8 since I dont know how to make little youtube videos of the scene.

Theres plenty of ways I could have played that game better but the fact remains the kv8 tanks like a champ, which I believe is disproportionate for its cost effectiveness

After watching it, my impression was actually that the 45mm gun on the KV8 had the biggest impact strangely. You never really had 2 full health panzers on it for a long time - both were wounded and the 45mm and a Zis were able to hold them off on a couple attempts. Then it was just always supported with conscripts AT nade, IS-2, and Zis. You had a couple chances to kill it but instead switched targets to the IS-2 - leaving both IS-2 and KV-8 near dead and you retreating -1 panzer. The 45mm let's it be supported with much less anti-tank effort. You could've taken it out early if it weren't for that. The 45mm could at least be a munitions upgrade on it or something. Tanks should really not have any fear of it but they did in this game.

there is a reason why the balance devs are purposely ignoring the op soviet units while nerfing german units at every opportunity ... they want to please the whiny russians in the CIS and beyond who are already inflamed at the campaign.