Soviet 1v1 build/ vs Feuersturm

Hey .org, just looking for some help here regarding both build orders and against Feuersturm commander.
First, here's a replay:

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  0

  VS

  Itaperuna

  GBPirate

  8

  Soviets vs Feuersturm

  by: Gbpirate map: Arnhem Checkpoint

  1

  -

Second, my build is pretty standard at:
Con
Con
Con
T2
Maxim

I usually send my CE around a few points close to the base then bring it back to build T2 when I have enough manpower.

Ideally, I like to get two Maxims and a mortar from my T2 but when I'm down I tend to get an AT gun (like what I did in the replay) but I wasn't rushed by a P4 or a Luchs (I find the Luchs meta not to common in the 200s of the leaderboard) and it was extra mp I didn't need to spend.

What are some other T2 builds that people enjoy using or ones specific to Arnhem Checkpoint/ones specific to Arnhem Checkpoint or other urban map when Feuersturm Commander is present on an opponent's loadout?

What should I have done differently this game? heavy mortar instead of standard mortar? Another Maxim? Should I get a fourth conscript? I always get three but four with PPSh seems to be very good especially vs Obers and typically beat a Volks/ StG depending on the engagement (but there were some MP40 Volks and double flamer Sturmpio was very punishing in close range).

I really feel like a one-trick-pony with my build because going T1 seems inefficient for me. I love using Maxims and back in the day with their wicked setup time I'd often get three and cover all sorts of angles with them. But now they're a lot slower and more cumbersome and their narrow arc really doesn't make up for it.

3 cons into T2 maxim simply isn't strong enough these days. You lose so much tempo when you tech and get maxims due to the engineer spending time off the battlefield, long build time for maxim and simply the maxim not being very good currently so the reward for this loss in tempo not really paying off unless you run extremely well suppressing squads as soon as the maxims come out.

I didn't check the replay but I would say 5 ppsh cons would be the way to go.

Alright i'm going five maxims this game replay coming shortly xD

Thanks tightrope

Welp, this didn't go so well and I generally got outplayed.

tomakaze had some nice T1 tips for me. Sniper after the 3rd Con, flamer clown car into Guards.

I got outplayed but maybe 5 cons isn't so great on Faymonville? A mortar w/ smoke would've been decent because that center house w/ MG42 forced me to play a side or split my forces. I really hate how slow the soviet mortar is. It really needs to get faster at aiming and rotating because it is just such a pain to use when compared to other standard mortars.

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  0

  VS

  Tomakaze

  GBPirate

  0

  Five conscripts

  by: Gbpirate map: Faymonville Approach

  1

  -

1.) IMO, conscripts are heavily reliant on cover when facing volks/grens. For this reason, I think it's better to rush your first 2 conscripts to critical locations (maybe an important building or heavy cover near a cutoff) and sit them there until something runs into them. I saw you just took the closest strategic points; and while certainly not bad, it can make using conscripts awkward since they are not great at pushing into anything in cover. Against OKW, I also go 3x cons - rush conscripts to battle, maybe build sandbags at VPs/enemy fuel, and ignore taking "my" territory, and build a 2nd CE and have the CEs backcap the line behind the battle.

2.) As tightrope said, Maxims just don't seem to be nearly as potent as they once were. Not only the momentum delay, but they arent even that good at dueling infantry (I feel they are easily flanked by wary opponents). They are decent as a backstop - but you generally don't want/need such a role until like mid game.

3.) By the time your maxim came out, OKW was already sitting in heavy cover/buildings at your cutoff - probably the worst situation for maxim. At that point, you were probably better off blobbing your conscripts for an assault with a mortar team (to clear buildings) instead of a maxim.

My build against OKW is basically 3x cons, 2x CEs (including default one), T2 (for prep for AT gun and it gives you some command points), and then SHOCK TROOPS. Depending on the fighting, these guys may not come out so fast and you might end up floating some MP. This is OK imo - shocks are nearly 400 MP anyways, you can get early hospital, and you will need an AT gun to follow up the shocks since, as you said, Luchs/Flak HT is popular meta. If the fighting is slow and I still don't have 2 CP, I will go mortar since I'm just so turned off by lackluster maxim performance early game. Shocks do very well vs basically every OKW squad, making them a superb infantry superiority fighters (compare this to OSTHEER, where LMG grens/HMG teams are prevalent and can laser these guys from far range - vs - OKW who tend to do better mid/close range - MG34 is also kinda bad and so not a great counter to shocks imo).

Welp, this didn't go so well and I generally got outplayed.

tomakaze had some nice T1 tips for me. Sniper after the 3rd Con, flamer clown car into Guards.

I got outplayed but maybe 5 cons isn't so great on Faymonville? A mortar w/ smoke would've been decent because that center house w/ MG42 forced me to play a side or split my forces. I really hate how slow the soviet mortar is. It really needs to get faster at aiming and rotating because it is just such a pain to use when compared to other standard mortars.

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  0

  VS

  Tomakaze

  GBPirate

  0

  Five conscripts

  by: Gbpirate map: Faymonville Approach

  1

  -

I would not get more than 3x Cons unless you plan to upgrade them with PPSH - they tend to not scale as well as Grens/volks since they get LMG/STG 44.

Additionally, since he went flamers (the original match - not the one vs Tomakazee), he became incapable of getting minesweepers - this gives your mines free reign so start spamming them when you can - 2x CE helps with this tactic.

Hey Vindicare,

What's your normal build against Ostheer?

I tried going with the 3x Cons 2x CE (but wanted to get a sniper so went for T1 but ended up being down so much mp I didn't build it)

Towards the end of this game

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  1

  VS

  Burmie

  GBPirate

  1

  Cons & Shocks

  by: Gbpirate map: Kholodny Ferma Winter

  1

  -

I was floating a lot of mp and probably should've built my sniper way a couple minutes before the game ended but I knew that I needed some AT so I went and built T2 but also got a heavy mortar (which was a bad choice because I needed that AT gun).

But that midgame build isn't even very important here because I lost to Burmie. Now, he's rank 80 or so after that game and I'm not at 220-something so it's not like I was slated to win according to our ELOs anyway.

If anyone else wants to give their 2cents (looking at you Tightrope) I'd much appreciate it. I feel like the game is too short for a "replay review" and I don't really want to open up another thread.



I'm under the impression that I should have a set cap order (or one with minor flexibility) for each faction/position/build order on each map. It sounds like a lot of knowledge to have, though. Like, I should know where to send my first units 100% of the time whether it's capping or just sending my first conscript to hold the line behind some stupid truck or wait in a house somewhere. Is that correct?

I'm actually a bit below your ranking but I relate to your struggles so much

I used to struggle heaps with this match up but I think one day it clicked for me that without PPSH conscripts play a lot like ostruppen, that is a delaying tactic reliant on sitting in cover and supporting another weapon.

That weapon I generally find is not the maxim for me, it just doesn't feel like it fills the offensive gap conscripts lack. What really helped me was blobbing a flamer CE with conscript who reinforces it with my first 60 muni. This is my "spearhead" against entrenched enemies, while my other conscripts are very defensive in cover and don't charge, this flamer has high uptime too, as when I deplete one squad of conscripts, I use another squad nearby to follow this CE. In a sense this allows my early game to mirror OKW with conscripts as the anvil like volks and engineer flamer as sturmpio hammer. Except far more cost effective and presence as engineer rarely needs to retreat with well recycled conscript merge juggling while sturmpioneers can rarely hammer multiple engagements back to back.

An alternative that I haven't done yet this patch is to add in a sniper squad as an "infantry zis gun" that I use to force OKW to attack my formation with. I find generally 4 man volks or 3 man sturms are no match for my conscripts who are in a defensive position. However I find this match up while somewhat more scaleable is lacks capping power vs 4 volks openers and can be very map dependent.

i'll see if i can watch your replays and give some advice. I dont think i have time for a 'full replay review' but i can advise some.

In a sense this allows my early game to mirror OKW with conscripts as the anvil like volks and engineer flamer as sturmpio hammer.

Gosh this is really funny but in a sad way
Thanks for your advice, man, I'll definitely try that out! I think 3x conscripts sniper, 4th conscript may work for me (that's what Tomakaze recommended) as I really like using snipers. I'd probably then need to go 1-2 Guards for some At. The problem is that 2 Guards squads is 150 muni to upgrade... and then if i want PPSh cons that's another 60 each D:

i'll see if i can watch your replays and give some advice. I dont think i have time for a 'full replay review' but i can advise some.

Thanks Findeed, that's much appreciated!