Login

russian armor

Pop cap cost differences when re-crewing some weapons

16 Aug 2013, 10:46 AM
#1
avatar of computerheat
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 117

Posts: 2838 | Subs: 3

When reinforcing some weapon crews the replacement squad members take up more than 1 pop. For example, the 120mm Soviet mortar is 2 pop/crew, Pak43 is 4 pop/crew, and the leFH is 5 (ffs). Does anyone know if/how these costs are changed when re-crewing a weapon with, for example, a pioneer squad (which costs 25 manpower and 1 pop to reinforce)?

Also, does this affect upkeep? AFAIK upkeep is based on your current pop cap and not on how many individual mans you have running around on the field (or sitting in a hole, in the case of the Pak43).

TBH I don't see how this would come into play in many games, unless you're using the Ostheer Joint Operations Doctrine and have multiple Pak43s and howitzers. Still...
16 Aug 2013, 11:10 AM
#2
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
I dont understand exactly how popcap affects income. All I know is the thresholds where removed. However, I think those pop costs per model/unit are a vestigial leftover from when the thresholds existed to slow a fast teching player. I feel stupid answering this without knowing, but I figures Id contribute what little I know...

As I understand it, there is a flat upkeep cost per pop count. I dunno how much it is, but you are right that it makes some unit models unduly expensive in terms of reduction to income.

In DoW2, one of the most prevalent balance changes was to to this economic sustained drain, as secondart to purchase cost, and tertiary to stat changes. There, atleast, devs frequently seemed to enact balance changes in that order of priority towards the end of the game, when most most outstanding stat imbalances had been adjusted.

Dats all I got. Free bump!
16 Aug 2013, 13:13 PM
#3
avatar of Cyridius

Posts: 627

I believe they maintain the same pop as the squad you're recrewing with, as they keep the same weapons, reinforcement cost, and durability as well.
16 Aug 2013, 14:11 PM
#4
avatar of computerheat
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 117

Posts: 2838 | Subs: 3

I believe they maintain the same pop as the squad you're recrewing with, as they keep the same weapons, reinforcement cost, and durability as well.


This is my assumption as well. I don't have any evidence to prove it, but I believe I've seen it in-game.
Only Relic postRelic 16 Aug 2013, 16:41 PM
#5
avatar of pqumsieh
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 267 | Subs: 8

The pop of the new weapon team is dependent on the entity that recrews it. So if you recrew a howitzer with a pioneer squad, the pop of the howitzer goes down drastically.

For everyone 1 pop, 1.5 manpower upkeep is imposed on the player.
16 Aug 2013, 16:49 PM
#6
avatar of HelpingHans
Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 1838 | Subs: 17

The pop of the new weapon team is dependent on the entity that recrews it. So if you recrew a howitzer with a pioneer squad, the pop of the howitzer goes down drastically.

For everyone 1 pop, 1.5 manpower upkeep is imposed on the player.


That's very interesting. I can imagine players purposely de-crewing their heavy artillery guns and recrewing them wih pios or osttruppen to save on manpower upkeep.
16 Aug 2013, 17:50 PM
#7
avatar of computerheat
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 117

Posts: 2838 | Subs: 3

The pop of the new weapon team is dependent on the entity that recrews it. So if you recrew a howitzer with a pioneer squad, the pop of the howitzer goes down drastically.

For everyone 1 pop, 1.5 manpower upkeep is imposed on the player.


Thanks very much for the info! Nice to know that there can be a benefit to having your expensive weapon crews killed, like Hans pointed out ;)
22 Aug 2013, 09:39 AM
#8
avatar of LeiwoUnion

Posts: 172

It shouldn't be like this. There should be a set population cost for the gun itself and then 1 pop per infantry manning it. Wasn't it like this in CoH1?
22 Aug 2013, 10:57 AM
#9
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164

iirc, no.

but i like the mechanics of recrewing a weapon with certain squads, to make them better.. like KCH 88s that survive 7 sniper shots, or KCH MGs, that kill flanking squads without repositioning... i always found that funny :-)
22 Aug 2013, 15:04 PM
#10
avatar of LeiwoUnion

Posts: 172

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2013, 10:57 AMcr4wler
iirc, no.

but i like the mechanics of recrewing a weapon with certain squads, to make them better.. like KCH 88s that survive 7 sniper shots, or KCH MGs, that kill flanking squads without repositioning... i always found that funny :-)

That's ok, but getting a better crew with cheapest possible option doesn't make sense. I don't like the idea that it would be better to immediately kill the original crew and then replace it with combatwise identical crew, but with a considerably lower population cost. Especially now that the upkeep is dependent on the used population and not entities.
22 Aug 2013, 15:28 PM
#11
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164


That's ok, but getting a better crew with cheapest possible option doesn't make sense. I don't like the idea that it would be better to immediately kill the original crew and then replace it with combatwise identical crew, but with a considerably lower population cost. Especially now that the upkeep is dependent on the used population and not entities.


well, i don't know the exact numbers tbh... but if you recrew with "cheap" squads, most likely especially your defensive capabilities will be significantly lower (as in less armor). offensive capabilities in weapon teams are secondary, but especially when recrwing with pioneers/engineers will most likely be lower too (since the most important offensive weapon will be the captured weapon itself, not the crew weapons). so there most likely will be a tradeoff (for example, in vcoh, the mg42 crew members were essentially pioneers: same armor type, same weapon, some hp).
22 Aug 2013, 18:44 PM
#12
avatar of LeiwoUnion

Posts: 172

Note that I'm talking about crews of pak 43 or the howitzers for example, not just any regular crew. Those have extremely high population costs/crewmember and while I don't know the numbers, they can't be very resilient to begin with. HP and armour values for those would help, anyone?
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

751 users are online: 751 guests
0 post in the last 24h
8 posts in the last week
37 posts in the last month
Registered members: 49101
Welcome our newest member, Dorca477
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM