When reinforcing some weapon crews the replacement squad members take up more than 1 pop. For example, the 120mm Soviet mortar is 2 pop/crew, Pak43 is 4 pop/crew, and the leFH is 5 (ffs). Does anyone know if/how these costs are changed when re-crewing a weapon with, for example, a pioneer squad (which costs 25 manpower and 1 pop to reinforce)?
Also, does this affect upkeep? AFAIK upkeep is based on your current pop cap and not on how many individual mans you have running around on the field (or sitting in a hole, in the case of the Pak43).
TBH I don't see how this would come into play in many games, unless you're using the Ostheer Joint Operations Doctrine and have multiple Pak43s and howitzers. Still...
Pop cap cost differences when re-crewing some weapons
16 Aug 2013, 10:46 AM
#1
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16 Aug 2013, 11:10 AM
#2
Posts: 2425
Permanently Banned I dont understand exactly how popcap affects income. All I know is the thresholds where removed. However, I think those pop costs per model/unit are a vestigial leftover from when the thresholds existed to slow a fast teching player. I feel stupid answering this without knowing, but I figures Id contribute what little I know...
As I understand it, there is a flat upkeep cost per pop count. I dunno how much it is, but you are right that it makes some unit models unduly expensive in terms of reduction to income.
In DoW2, one of the most prevalent balance changes was to to this economic sustained drain, as secondart to purchase cost, and tertiary to stat changes. There, atleast, devs frequently seemed to enact balance changes in that order of priority towards the end of the game, when most most outstanding stat imbalances had been adjusted.
Dats all I got. Free bump!
As I understand it, there is a flat upkeep cost per pop count. I dunno how much it is, but you are right that it makes some unit models unduly expensive in terms of reduction to income.
In DoW2, one of the most prevalent balance changes was to to this economic sustained drain, as secondart to purchase cost, and tertiary to stat changes. There, atleast, devs frequently seemed to enact balance changes in that order of priority towards the end of the game, when most most outstanding stat imbalances had been adjusted.
Dats all I got. Free bump!
16 Aug 2013, 13:13 PM
#3
Posts: 627
I believe they maintain the same pop as the squad you're recrewing with, as they keep the same weapons, reinforcement cost, and durability as well.
16 Aug 2013, 14:11 PM
#4
17 Posts: 2838 | Subs: 3
I believe they maintain the same pop as the squad you're recrewing with, as they keep the same weapons, reinforcement cost, and durability as well.
This is my assumption as well. I don't have any evidence to prove it, but I believe I've seen it in-game.
Only Relic post
16 Aug 2013, 16:41 PM
#5
Posts: 267 | Subs: 8
The pop of the new weapon team is dependent on the entity that recrews it. So if you recrew a howitzer with a pioneer squad, the pop of the howitzer goes down drastically.
For everyone 1 pop, 1.5 manpower upkeep is imposed on the player.
For everyone 1 pop, 1.5 manpower upkeep is imposed on the player.
16 Aug 2013, 16:49 PM
#6
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Posts: 1838 | Subs: 17
The pop of the new weapon team is dependent on the entity that recrews it. So if you recrew a howitzer with a pioneer squad, the pop of the howitzer goes down drastically.
For everyone 1 pop, 1.5 manpower upkeep is imposed on the player.
That's very interesting. I can imagine players purposely de-crewing their heavy artillery guns and recrewing them wih pios or osttruppen to save on manpower upkeep.
16 Aug 2013, 17:50 PM
#7
17 Posts: 2838 | Subs: 3
The pop of the new weapon team is dependent on the entity that recrews it. So if you recrew a howitzer with a pioneer squad, the pop of the howitzer goes down drastically.
For everyone 1 pop, 1.5 manpower upkeep is imposed on the player.
Thanks very much for the info! Nice to know that there can be a benefit to having your expensive weapon crews killed, like Hans pointed out
22 Aug 2013, 09:39 AM
#8
Posts: 172
It shouldn't be like this. There should be a set population cost for the gun itself and then 1 pop per infantry manning it. Wasn't it like this in CoH1?
22 Aug 2013, 10:57 AM
#9
Posts: 1164
iirc, no.
but i like the mechanics of recrewing a weapon with certain squads, to make them better.. like KCH 88s that survive 7 sniper shots, or KCH MGs, that kill flanking squads without repositioning... i always found that funny :-)
but i like the mechanics of recrewing a weapon with certain squads, to make them better.. like KCH 88s that survive 7 sniper shots, or KCH MGs, that kill flanking squads without repositioning... i always found that funny :-)
22 Aug 2013, 15:04 PM
#10
Posts: 172
iirc, no.
but i like the mechanics of recrewing a weapon with certain squads, to make them better.. like KCH 88s that survive 7 sniper shots, or KCH MGs, that kill flanking squads without repositioning... i always found that funny :-)
That's ok, but getting a better crew with cheapest possible option doesn't make sense. I don't like the idea that it would be better to immediately kill the original crew and then replace it with combatwise identical crew, but with a considerably lower population cost. Especially now that the upkeep is dependent on the used population and not entities.
22 Aug 2013, 15:28 PM
#11
Posts: 1164
That's ok, but getting a better crew with cheapest possible option doesn't make sense. I don't like the idea that it would be better to immediately kill the original crew and then replace it with combatwise identical crew, but with a considerably lower population cost. Especially now that the upkeep is dependent on the used population and not entities.
well, i don't know the exact numbers tbh... but if you recrew with "cheap" squads, most likely especially your defensive capabilities will be significantly lower (as in less armor). offensive capabilities in weapon teams are secondary, but especially when recrwing with pioneers/engineers will most likely be lower too (since the most important offensive weapon will be the captured weapon itself, not the crew weapons). so there most likely will be a tradeoff (for example, in vcoh, the mg42 crew members were essentially pioneers: same armor type, same weapon, some hp).
22 Aug 2013, 18:44 PM
#12
Posts: 172
Note that I'm talking about crews of pak 43 or the howitzers for example, not just any regular crew. Those have extremely high population costs/crewmember and while I don't know the numbers, they can't be very resilient to begin with. HP and armour values for those would help, anyone?
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