The tech cost for LMG, rifle-grenades and bundle grenades.

To be honest, you're arguing for the sake of being right (using most obscure English that appears to intend to confuse ) for something that is already clearly explained correctly in the guides, which links I posted above.

===============

- The basic point that Vipper is trying to refute and Katitof enforce, is that :

SOV unlocking AT 'nade, molotov
USF unlocking 'nades, BAR/Zook
UKF unlocking +1 man squad, 'Nade, Bren/PIAT

are side-grades that delay getting tanks.
And that German teching allows getting AT/LMG/Zooks/'nades without needing Fuel SIDE-grades
that delay tanks in any way. Those upgrades are unlocked without side-tech, and without weapon
racks that you need to return to HQ for. Soviets thankfully don't need weapon racks, but UKF and USF
do.

- Vipper says normal teching is still a cost. It is not free.
- Katitof says it is free, as he doesn't have to sacrifice anything, as he'd have
to do it anyways without needing to delay obtaining tanks as a result.

Vipper is stuck on the word "free". Teching for said upgrades still requires fuel.
The word missing is "side-grade".

Katitof set him straight, but Vipper is stuck in trying to disprove axis weapon upgrades aren't free.

Semantics. But still important, as for the allies, it gets expensive fast, and it does set you back.

- For OKW, they get 'nades just by buying a truck (not even upgrading it).
They need to upgrade it to unlock both STG44 and Panzershrek upgrades. Thus, no side-grades.

I think instead of calling things "free" we ought to call them "perks".
USF gets free troops as a perk of teching up.
OST and OKW get free infantry upgrades as a perk of teching up.

Other factions need to pay expensive side tech inefficient cost for weapon upgrades.
But ultimately, this results in stronger infantry squads one for one.
German factions don't need to side tech. And their upgrades are efficient. But weaker
down the line.

It makes for interesting choices and strategies. And, honestly, no one wants factions to be same.
People complain about teching not being the same, but if all factions were all the same, then
people would complain anyways.

“The story so far:

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”

― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Allies complain germans get their weapon tech for free as a perk of regular teching.
Germans complain that allies can double-upgrade, yet, not having had to pay intense
fuel (and double munitions!) to obtain said upgrades.

Result : Both sides complain bitterly.
Solution : Offer to make everything exactly the same.
Both sides refuse.

Allies want Germans to start having to pay for their weapon tech with fuel. (Side. Slowing down tank)
Germans want Allies to not double upgrade yet keeping weaker upgrades (And still paying side fuel).

Result : Everyone are hypocrits

....
are side-grades that delay getting tanks.
...

The obvious error in the the medium tanks theory is one does not need tech only to counter medium tanks.

Ostheer need to tech because if they caught without proper counter they are punished hard and lose ground that becomes even more difficult to gain back.

A single light vehicle/tank is enough to create serious problems to Ostheer.

Before WFA T3 was the strong point of Ostheer since they had to play defensively until they could start pushing with their medium tanks. In the current patch Ostheer PzIV has lost most of its shock value while it becomes almost obsolete when allied TDs hit the field since the changes to hit and penetrate even at range 60 is simply too high.

....
Katitof set him straight, but Vipper is stuck in trying to disprove axis weapon upgrades aren't free.
...

Hardly the specific user comes with allot of weird theories like the one claiming that BP1 comes at no actual cost or that the "hammer/anvil" is not tech. This theories simply confuse things creating a distorting picture.

Button line is Ostheer don't really have an advantage due to their tech tree.

....
Semantics. But still important, as for the allies, it gets expensive fast, and it does set you back.
...

the source of semantics is the person using term like "exclusive upgrade bundles" and "premium expenses"

Ostheer does have advantage. Everyone does. Just different advantages.

Did you LOOK at Ostheer tech 3 building (The Pz4 one). OMG. So cheap.
(160 manpower, and, er, like 15 fu?)(I'm getting it wrong, but it's low)
Compare this to Soviet T4 building (equiv to Ostheer T3). It's 260 manp
and 90 fuel. Holy meep.

Soviet gets inexpensive vehicles, but factories cost a ton.
Ostheer gets inexpensive factories, but vehicles cost a lot.

Result : Both are frustrated.

I'd love if soviets could make T34/76 in T3 - unlocked only after T4
is built, and for 100 fuel. This would make soviets mostly make T34s
the regular way, but make it easier to rebuild their tank force (at
a cost to efficiency)

Ostheer does have advantage. Everyone does. Just different advantages.
...

Ostheer have advantages and disadvantages as any other faction but their teching does not lead them in having an advantage.

(edited in attempt to make it more clear)

Ostheer have advantages and disadvantages as any other faction but their teching does not give them an advantage.

=============
- Their teching gives free PzFaust and RifleGrenade and LMG42 upgrade unlocks. That is a perk.
An advantage. Also, LMG42s are more efficient than BARs or even BREN. Also they don't need vet 1
like Americans do for their riflemen's AT Rifle Grenades (British don't even get any AT 'nade).
- Ostheer factory buildings are insanely cheap. As most of the cost comes from the BP teching.
In truth, I think German tech may be delayed because of the double upgrade (BP, then make building).
Allies just get theirs straight (Make T3, boom, you can use it).
OST and OKW both have two phases.

OKW's is the need to make a supply truck then move it into position (some just do it next to HQ).
Since the supply truck is insanely slow, it does slow down teching a bit.

Then you need to build the damn thing.

OstHeer can put multiple pios on consctruction, speeding it up. Like soviets do.
But OKW, British cannot speed it up. USF can, with their captain's supervise.

Ultimately, every faction does it differently, and that weights in on their other perks.
And while we all complain bitterly about it, we'd genuinely have it no other way


Player A : Make Player B have same disadvantages as me (but not my perks) !
DEVs: Fine, we'll give you their weaknesses and we'll give them your perks too.
Player A : Noooo

I feel bad for DEVs. I really do. Lol
COH's player base is like herding cats, I swear.

Ostheer have advantages and disadvantages as any other faction but their teching does not lead them in having an advantage.

(edited in attempt to make it more clear)

Lol, probably your first post of your life where you claim Ostheer have advantages.

Lol, probably your first post of your life where you claim Ostheer have advantages.

You seem to know very little about me so pls try to stick to the Topic which is about Ostheer teching.

- Ostheer tech perk : Free infantry unlocks (faust, nade, LMG).
Can use multiple pios to make building faster. Buildings cheapest.
(But Battlephase teching is slow and can't be speeded up)
- OKW tech perk : Free infantry unlocks. Buildings have abilities.
Don't need engineers and can be placed anywhere.
- Brit tech perks : Don't require engineers, pre-placed, free to rebuild.
Comes with Howitzer!! Unlocks Infantry medic or Arty fer free.
- USF tech Perks : Can be rebuilt for free, don't require engineers,
can be speeded up with Captain "supervize". Come with a free combat unit.
- SOV Tech Perks : Can be built faster using multiple engineers...
No other perks.
Most unlocks don't require side-grade unlocks at all.
Except Conscripts. Who builds fighting conscripts?! Masochists.

Ostheer does have advantage. Everyone does. Just different advantages.

Did you LOOK at Ostheer tech 3 building (The Pz4 one). OMG. So cheap.
(160 manpower, and, er, like 15 fu?)(I'm getting it wrong, but it's low)
Compare this to Soviet T4 building (equiv to Ostheer T3). It's 260 manp
and 90 fuel. Holy meep.

Soviet gets inexpensive vehicles, but factories cost a ton.
Ostheer gets inexpensive factories, but vehicles cost a lot.

Result : Both are frustrated.

I'd love if soviets could make T34/76 in T3 - unlocked only after T4
is built, and for 100 fuel. This would make soviets mostly make T34s
the regular way, but make it easier to rebuild their tank force (at
a cost to efficiency)

spot the one that has never played osteher(hint he doesn't know what battle phases 2-3 are)

Someone may have already made this point, as I have only skimmed this thread, but the side-techs that the allies need for their nades and such isn't always a bad thing. Soviets are the easiest example but getting molotov tech after you opened with say 3-4 cons means you'll have good garrison clearing long before anyone can usually afford a flamethrower.

With the Brits there's no argument. Their side-techs are practically never a vice, as most of them give you access to very unique and powerful options. They don't even need their grenades but now that they're only 10 fuel I can't imagine a reason not to get them.

Someone may have already made this point, as I have only skimmed this thread, but the side-techs that the allies need for their nades and such isn't always a bad thing. Soviets are the easiest example but getting molotov tech after you opened with say 3-4 cons means you'll have good garrison clearing long before anyone can usually afford a flamethrower.

With the Brits there's no argument. Their side-techs are practically never a vice, as most of them give you access to very unique and powerful options. They don't even need their grenades but now that they're only 10 fuel I can't imagine a reason not to get them.

munition starved faction

munition starved faction

That's a reason not to use them a lot. There's no reason not to unlock them (at some point) with how cheap that upgrade is. 1 grenade can change an match

That's a reason not to use them a lot. There's no reason not to unlock them (at some point) with how cheap that upgrade is. 1 grenade can change an match

yea but when playing brits u need munition for lmg,piat,medkits,base art,mines(theyhave no direct snare),tank upgrade,tulips,granade on tanks,etc... i would say it's even more mution starved than ost

yea but when playing brits u need munition for lmg,piat,medkits,base art,mines(theyhave no direct snare),tank upgrade,tulips,granade on tanks,etc... i would say it's even more mution starved than ost

There isnt a reason to not get the side tech tho as the resources for such a powerful grenade ability is almost negligible.

How much you actually use the grenades if different bc you might want to save that muni for brens but typically such a cheap upgrade is never not worth getting at some point of the game.

With the Brits, the MP cost of the upgrades can't be underestimated, though. The fact that anything even remotely effective against vehicles and tanks is in T2 makes anything that delays getting the first AT gun and/or AEC quite risky.