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Well that's not Katikof who's making a thread of anything because you say something he didn't like.
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Dear Esxile
If in your opinion Ostheer tech progress gives them an advantage over other faction, pls elaborate and share your opinion.
If on the other hand you have an issue with something I do, pls contact via since what I do or do not do is not the topic of this thread.
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LOL
Dear Vipper, why are you so wrong?
Ostheer doesn't pay for their upgrade, this is balanced, and nobody complains about it, that's all.
Katitof-2018
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Dear Vipper, why are you so wrong?
Ostheer doesn't pay for their upgrade, this is balanced, and nobody complains about it, that's all.
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How does one even have a bundle grenade equipped unit before BP1?
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listen Katitof is a troll, you shouldn't open new threads just because of the nonsense he sprouts on other threads
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Posts: 37
Storm troopers, 250 pg.
Posts: 33
Lets try to get somethings straight.
BP1 is tech and it has a cost.
It unlocks the following things:
LMG for grenadiers
Rifles grenades for grenadiers
Bundle grenades
The T2 building
All these things come at the cost the BP1 research.
Saying that any of these things has no actual tech cost is simply inaccurate/misleading.
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Would you be so kind and provide me with some replays in which you have these things before BP1?
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That is a flawed way of looking at WM ability requirements. You view teching as a "bundle" consisting of tech and abilities, but the unlock merely serves as a time constraint. Its similiar to shifting OKW nade requirements around deployed truck/truck on field without changing the cost of teching.
It is common practice in many RTS to add a time delay by locking it behind other tech, not to combine the cost, but to provide a free ability at a later time. Starcraft also utilizes this principle a lot, and so do many other games.
Its not inaccurate or misleading because the abilites dont influence the tech cost, and only require the techup in order to delay its availability.
Posts: 33
You can look things your way if you want. If in your opinion Ostheer get "free" things, they are not the only one, UKF, USF and OKW get free things also.
Time-delay is in game in the form of CPs.
In addition if in you opinion Ostheer tech work as time restriction one could consider "side tech" that bypasses that restriction as an extra cost for the choice of when and if one will unlock a tech.
Bottom line here is that Ostheer hardly have any advantage because of their tech tree.
They have sort of linear tech rigid progression in some way similar to UKF but they also have to build their buildings.
Posts: 37
Also answered your question on how Ostheer can have a unit with access to bundle grenades without BP1, which is with the doctrinal access to Stormtroopers or PG. which is again not balance issue.
Do you have a point you want to make?
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Time delay with CPs doesnt work with stock units which dont come from doctrines, neither does it work with stock abilites, these would be delayed with veterancy requirements.
Im not saying Ost has an advantage to other factions in terms of teching, and i strongly agree that the linear progression with structure building is a disadvantage for Ost.
I personally would welcome some changes such as reduced build time, or reduced tech time. So i do agree with you on that, but that is a seperate problem in itself, and the problems you note are merely symptoms of that and not the core issue.
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I have not asked you whether it is possible (ie. whether the game allows it) to have a bundle grenade unit before BP1 but how does one even have such a unit before BP1. This question must be interpreted as a question regarding the factual occurence in games actually played, not theory crafting from game mechanisms. In essence, this question basically stands as: how does anyone actually have these units before BP1 so that part of the thread can have any value.
Yes, that your thread has no relevance to anything and is completely redundant and pointless
Also, if you like extensive formalism, so be it.
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Lets try to get somethings straight.
BP1 is tech and it has a cost.
It unlocks the following things:
LMG for grenadiers
Rifles grenades for grenadiers
Bundle grenades
The T2 building
All these things come at the cost the BP1 research.
Saying that any of these things has no actual tech cost is simply inaccurate/misleading.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
Posts: 808
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It is a TECH COST.
Not a SIDE COST.
You pay extra for nothing and that cost is balanced to allow you med armor at almost the same time as any other faction who Needs to pay extra for stuff that directly delays tech.
It does NOT serve the function of strategical planning next resource expense, but merely a timing and tech pace function.
That was the whole point you were so stubbornly trying to argue against. Or you still want to pretend that battlephases serve the exact same role as zooks, nades, aec/bofors or squad bolster upgrades for other factions and make your tech slower with the option to skip them for faster tech?
I am not able to tell the reason, but its impossible for you to comprehend the idea of what a side cost is and how it relates to tech path and timing.
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