Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
So uh... I've been wondering if opening these threads means anything at all... I mean, do the mod makers actually take these threads seriously? If they do then I hope a new balance patch will come out soon to fix OKW...
Posts: 88
I don't think so, how could they?
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Well, I mean if they even consider reading and telling the other guys in their team to look into what the players are complaining/proposing (if the players make some good points, obviously).
If they don't then this forum section is pretty pointless.
Posts: 503 | Subs: 1
Overpriced stugcome on, jp4 is the best non doc AT in the game. Plus it costs roughly as much as a SU85, which is much worse than jp4. The only runner up to the jp4 is the jackson, but it is more expensive and still not as good.
Posts: 88
Well, so what are the good points made on this topic. Can't seen one.
Posts: 5279
It's all a +1 for su 85
Jagdpanzer 4 advantage is armor (only useful against generalist) and target size.
Posts: 2742
Well, I mean if they even consider reading and telling the other guys in their team to look into what the players are complaining/proposing (if the players make some good points, obviously).
If they don't then this forum section is pretty pointless.
Posts: 1660
To play devils advocate even with the tremendously higher pen on the su85 the JP4 still has a chance to bounce it at max range while the su85 will always be penned by the JP. so i mean there is that... Su85 should have a small pen reduction since it has that big buff with vet, but the JP4 is a good choice being the only non doc axis unit that not only can match the range of allied TDs but also being one of the few units that will deflect shots on occasion.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
To play devils advocate..
Overpriced stug
Posts: 1930
Let's actually check it:
Jagdpanzer 4 armor: 230
Su 85 penetration: 220-230-240
It has a 5% of probability to bounce a shot at max range. Even if someone would actually argue it is "a chance to bounce" with a straight face (that would be a showcase of utmost politician skills), IIRC percentages under 9 or 6 % are considered null by the game.
The rest is based on the wrong idea that jp4 can actually make use of its armor against anything bigger than a generalist.
To play devils advocate even with the tremendously higher pen on the su85 the JP4 still has a chance to bounce it at max range while the su85 will always be penned by the JP. so i mean there is that... Su85 should have a small pen reduction since it has that big buff with vet, but the JP4 is a good choice being the only non doc axis unit that not only can match the range of allied TDs but also being one of the few units that will deflect shots on occasion.
Posts: 88
Balance forums are like public commenting periods: It's there to make you feel like you're involved, but has absolutely no bearing or influence on what is actually going to happen.
It's gives an idea of how the public feels about the changes that are already going to be made or have been made.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
OK, guess I'll just silently hide and see how things go... I mean who would even bother to propose changes if the balancers just cover their ears and "Blah blah blah I can't hear you!"...
Double schreck for OKW is nothing but a distant dream...
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Jp4 doesn't just rely on having good armor, it's also one of the smallest target on the field. A size of 17 means the Jp4 can dodge as well as bounce shots.
Posts: 1930
The difference in target is with SU-85 is 1 (18 even smaller than the Stug's 20).
Su-85 and M36 get x130% accuracy at vet 2 and FF has a mid range of 45(!!!) x110% accuracy from commander and another x130% at vet 3
Both armor (allied TDs will penetrate it reliably) and target size might help JP4 vs allied TD but do not guarantee victory, in addition M36 and Su-85 are more mobile and can break the engagement if they have to.
And JP4 needs to be strong vs allied TD because OKW luck the normal counters of 60 range ATGs and strong AT infantry.
JP is not a bad unit (it over priced and has too much pop as counter to allied mediums) but simply it is not more cost efficient than allied TDs.
Posts: 5279
Let's actually check it:
Jagdpanzer 4 armor: 230
Su 85 penetration: 220-230-240
It has a 5% of probability to bounce a shot at max range. Even if someone would actually argue it is "a chance to bounce" with a straight face (that would be a showcase of utmost politician skills), IIRC percentages under 9 or 6 % are considered null by the game.
The rest is based on the wrong idea that jp4 can actually make use of its armor against anything bigger than a generalist.
Posts: 911
But, against the far more cancerous soviet TD the JP armour and range really shines. Able to bounce 1 ib 5 shella but also needing 6 to kill vs guaranteed to pen and needing only 3 to kill...
Posts: 5279
Huh? 5% isnt 1 in 5.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
really, you're going to bring vet 3 into this?
the jp4 is the only TD to get a hp boost at vet2, which make the the most survivable TD considering its armor, size, and HP.
The JP4 is survivable, Su-85 have the best gun, Jackson have speed, Firefly have (expensive) alpha strike. They need cost adjustment. The jp4 and Firefly need to be cheaper.
Posts: 1930
I did not bring vet 3 into this.
Su-85 and M36 get x130% accuracy at vet 2 and FF has a mid range of 45(!!!) x110% accuracy from commander and another x130% at vet 3
Posts: 1660
Well, i mean IN the text you quoted i said that the su85 should lose some of its pen and even still, the fact that the pen on the su85 IS currently so high but, even as small as it is, has a chance to bounce the JP means that its armour is pretty impressive (i was under the impression that small chances to pen were null but any chance to bounce was untouched, as small as it is)
But, against the far more cancerous soviet TD (that being the su76) the JP armour and range really shines. Able to bounce 1 in 5 shells but also needing 6 pens to be killed vs guaranteed to pen and needing only 3 to kill and su76
And being able to bounce mediums more often than not IS a big deal when we are talking the prices were talking for these units.
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