[OKW] Breakthrough BO

Hey guys,

I wanted to ask if anyone here has some suggestions regarding this doctrines and the relative build orders, for both BTG and MECH hq teching.

I'm also interested about the viability of a mech into btg up to jagdtiger build, and about the viability of a double sturm and kubel/raketen into fast teching and pfussies.

All this in a 1vs1 scenario.

HelpingHans has a Breakthrough build order in one of his older tips and tricks videos but that's from about two patches ago if I recall correctly.

A Sturmpioneer Kubel rush isn't a bad idea although you'd need something to fill the gap between them and CP2. Floating manpower is giving up OKW's early game advantage.

Given how late the Jagdtiger comes out I'm not confident skipping the Schwerer Panzer Headquarters would work well. You'd be very reliant on Pumas, Raks and Panzershreck Sturmpioneers. You'll probably want at least a Panzer IV.

It sounds interesting enough for me to want to experiment with it though.

Breakthrough is a quite flexible commander, basically giving you everything you could ask for in terms of call-ins and off-map artillery.

I don't know if you ever watch Imperial Dane on Twitch, but I think it is fair to say that this is pretty much his favorite OKW doctrine and he makes especially good use of the breakthrough tactics on opponents cut-offs and the Sturm Offizier ability to force an enemy unit to retreat.

I think skipping voks is certainly viable with this doctrine, especially now that sturmpios cost less to reinforce (allthough you might want to get at least one unit of volks for building sandbags). I would caution against the temptation of going too heavy into both volks and pzfusis, as you will need to prepare for the late game so you don't get wrecked by an early t-70 or other light/medium tanks.

As for the relative builds in terms of battlegroup and mech I don't really have an opinion on this, as I don't really think this doctrine makes that choice much different than any other doctrine would (I guess it could be said that with two sturmpios you could ensure that you always had medkits in base if you decide to go that direction).

I have recently faced a few people who went heavy infantry and directly into a jagdtiger and I personally didn't find that very hard to deal with. While you might be able to rattle some lower level opponents from the sheer shock value, I think anyone close to lvl 10 would just outmaneuver and crush the hulking beast (potentially even just snare it so it would have to limp back to base and spend ages being repaired). If you're looking for at strat to skip or delay building the schwere panzer, then I still think that Spec Ops and the command tank is the way to go.

If you skip Volks what do you build before CP2, not including the starting Sturm?

If you skip Volks what do you build before CP2, not including the starting Sturm?

Granted that skipping volks entirely will be a challenge, and I would recommend getting at least one unit for sandbags and incendiary grenades. Having said that I think it's possible by going 2-3 sturmpios, 2-3 kubels and a sturmoffizier.

The sturm and kubelspam will synergize well with the kubels soaking up damage and the sturms able to quickly repair them, but will be quite micro intensive and run the risk of severe setbacks if they get taken out. going multiple kubels against a t1 soviet opening could prove devestating as the soviet scout car could make short work of them in the first minutes of the game. Against americans it could work quite nicely though and put on significant pressure on them to lock down their vital opening game.

Three Sturmpioneers would be interesting and every surviving Sturmpioneer past the minesweeping original is another unit that can carry a Panzershreck.

I personally wouldn't want to build more than two Kubelwagens.

Do you think Battlegroup into Flak or Mechanized into Luchs or Puma would best serve a Sturmpioneer and Kubelwagen heavy opening? Personally I'd lean towards the Flak: with a lot of fragile infantry around the medics are likely to be invaluable and the Flak truck seems like it'd have a very strong synergy with two Panzershrecked Sturmpioneer squads.

Three Sturmpioneers would be interesting and every surviving Sturmpioneer past the minesweeping original is another unit that can carry a Panzershreck.

I personally wouldn't want to build more than two Kubelwagens.

Do you think Battlegroup into Flak or Mechanized into Luchs or Puma would best serve a Sturmpioneer and Kubelwagen heavy opening? Personally I'd lean towards the Flak: with a lot of fragile infantry around the medics are likely to be invaluable and the Flak truck seems like it'd have a very strong synergy with two Panzershrecked Sturmpioneer squads.

Either could probably work. As Sturmpios can place medkits, they could compensate for the lack of battlegroup for a while so I would mainly base this on the map and what you are most comfortable playing with.

kubels soaking up damage

Not anymore (thx god)

sturms able to quickly repair them

No anylonger (thx god)

Against americans it could work quite nicely

.50 cal eat Kubels for breakfast (in the previous patch as well)

1. IIRC Kubels have had their health increased by 50 and their armor reduced, so they should still be good at soaking up damage, albeit they take damage faster than before

2. if you are going for 2-3 sturms like I mentioned in this strat I'd say that the repairs are going fairly quickly

3. Bazookas also eat kubels for breakfast and just like the 50 cal we are no longer talking early game when they hit the field. So this is hardly a relevant point, as the kubel pretty much always start to rapidly loose their viability after the first teching.

Is there any quick way of disposing of kubels to deny exp to the enemy? Like attack ground with a raketen?

Is there any quick way of disposing of kubels to deny exp to the enemy? Like attack ground with a raketen?

You mean like killing your own kubel? It is generally quite hard to kill your own units, but I think your best bet would be to place it on top of your own mine and shoot at the mine.

But to be honest I can't think of any scenario where I would not just rather try to make the most of it while I could keep it alive, as the amount of xp it feeds an opponent hardly justifies killing it yourself.

You mean like killing your own kubel? It is generally quite hard to kill your own units, but I think your best bet would be to place it on top of your own mine and shoot at the mine.

But to be honest I can't think of any scenario where I would not just rather try to make the most of it while I could keep it alive, as the amount of xp it feeds an opponent hardly justifies killing it yourself.

After 2-ish minutes it becomes a burden to micro since it dies in 1 second. Killing it would free up some popcap and you can salvage it for 5 fuel.

After 2-ish minutes it becomes a burden to micro since it dies in 1 second. Killing it would free up some popcap and you can salvage it for 5 fuel.

you must have been a fan of the former USF ability "Withdraw and Refit"

I guess you have a point but to be honest I think I would still prefer to just use it for capping and let it have a natural death. The amount of xp that this ends of giving the opponent must be quite negligible in the grand scheme of things