Struggle with 3v3 Soviet builds

Two of my friends and myself play a lot of 3v3 as Soviets.

Mostly we follow the runaroundlikeaheadlesschickengetroflstopmedanddie strat.

None of us are what one would call good players, but we aren't totally mouthbreathers either. At the moment we kind of react to the Osteer, rather than dictate play. Mostly we lack a coherent vision and overall plan. We have moments where in the early game we dominate and then as soon as a PiV rolls out around 10 mins in, we get rolled. My feeling is that if you try to cut off Osteer from fuel, you stretch forces too thin which delays AT teching. If you hold back and consolidate, that allows even more PiV's to roll over you.

Has anyone got any solid early builds as Soviet for 3v3 where it doesn't all fall apart after 10 mins? Is it realistic for one player to focus exclusively on ZiS guns/teching to SU-85 from the get go?

Any help much appreciated (also it'll mean I'll stop raging over TS in my team mates ears )

I find that getting a pre-emptive ZiS works pretty well for me (note, I am not a great player, but I do a lot of 3v3).

The ZiS is a good choice against flame halftracks and early German armor, and its bombardment ability is fairly good against infantry too.

We tried having about 5 or 6 ZiS in one game last night, but they just got swarmed by, IIRC, 9 PiV's at one point. Eeek.

Again, I'm not a great player, but it seems that you need at least three ZiS per PiV. Hell, at one point an injured PiV leisurely drove side on to one of my ZiS's and took zero damage. Even with engine damage it looks like it's too stupidly easy for a few PiV's to flank around the back of a collection of staggered ZiS's.

I tried buttoning, which helped a little bit, but I'm not entirely sure how the mechanic of that works. Does it have a set period of engagement, or does it break as soon as the buttoning squad moves?

If you're fighting hordes of pz4s you should really have Su85s out to combat them.

Zis are fine but not as sole AT against massed tanks.

Conscripts to throw AT grenades to slow down the german armor or guards to button,and then SU85 to do the kills. They have a tremendous range and damage against a pz4.

Su85 can easily be out by the time the germans get pz4s.

My intent was not to suggest that you get nothing but Zis for anti tank. As I said, Zis are good against early German vehicles (like halftracks) and also AFAIK against set up weapons and infantry with its bombard ability.

If you're getting hit by 9 Panzer 4s, I'm not sure what to say. Perhaps you're teching too late? In my team games I see similar things, where my Soviet team will upgrade to vehicles noticeably after the Ostheer players get theirs, giving Ze Germans substantial time to dominate the map and secure a lead.

Based on my own losses in this regard, I see myself and my teammates doing the following things, which end up giving the Ostheer team the momentum they need to get lots of vehicles out early.

1. Throwing away excessive infantry against MG42s. Scout/Sniper or Soviet Mortars seem to help, though I still have issues in the early game against MGs in large buildings. I hear that Penal Battalions do OK, though I think the Zis (which is why I've started getting one fairly early) also helps against bunkers and large buildings.

2. Not upgrading points. This boggles my mind: I'll have my area of the map locked down pretty well (sometimes!) and then I'll take a bit of time to shore up with Munitions or fuel points (tend to do fuel points to help get vehicles out earlier) and then find that neither of my teammates has done this! Unsure if the Germans are either, but not upgrading points lets the enemy take them more easily and is a missed opportunity to get much needed fuel income.

3. Throwing away resources in general. I know that, as Soviet, I can be quite sloppy with my T70 and scout cars, often losing 2-3 before I decide to get something heavier. This is a patent waste of fuel and resources, and probably helps the Ostheer player who is saving up for their PIV in the hopes that they can get it out before we get out our SU85s.

4. Buying too many structures. Sure, probably in the late game it makes sense to have all structures in place, but I think that buying T1,2,3 and 4 in the early or midgame tends to eat up the fuel that you'd use to get more tanks, and manpower for things like Guards Rifle squads or the Conscript AT grenade (as a for instance). I know that I still tend to waffle too much in the early game, and can build more buildings than I'd like as I settle on a way to counter Ze Germans' strategy. I think comitting to either Support Weapon or Special Rifle, then either T3 or T4, is better overall than buying all of them within a shorter time window.

My experience is that losing to german armor (at least at my play level) is a snowball of poor Soviet play, where they combine throwing away models and squads with poor resource management that results in slower teching to Soviet armor and nasty fuel restrictions that throttle the number of tanks we can produce.

Possibly a bit ramble-y but I hope it helps at least a bit.

make 3 conscripts make 3 scout cars. pick shock comander or the rifle dlc guy that gives you a repair ability. run like headless chickens but faster!

it does not work in 1v1

In a 3v3 someone should always be going snipers with a scout car. You don't need more than 1 scout car, but have the person going snipers get 3 of them. Micro the hell out of the snipercar and you're pretty much assured to force a tech up from the enemy to get their own scout cars. This alone will delay some P4 as that person now has to spend fuel on a minimum of 1 scout car, and sometimes more. Have the sniper user take any one of the guard commanders and get a guard squad out right away and upgrade it to button and destroy the scout car.

Someone should always be doing mgs/zis in a 3v3 too. Everyone regardless of early game strat should be getting su-85 or T-34 as soon as they have the fuel for it.

In a 3v3 someone should always be going snipers with a scout car. You don't need more than 1 scout car, but have the person going snipers get 3 of them. Micro the hell out of the snipercar and you're pretty much assured to force a tech up from the enemy to get their own scout cars. This alone will delay some P4 as that person now has to spend fuel on a minimum of 1 scout car, and sometimes more. Have the sniper user take any one of the guard commanders and get a guard squad out right away and upgrade it to button and destroy the scout car.

Someone should always be doing mgs/zis in a 3v3 too. Everyone regardless of early game strat should be getting su-85 or T-34 as soon as they have the fuel for it.

Thank you I will be taking note of this