[1v1] Threw a game I didn't need to
11 Dec 2017, 01:54 AM
#1
Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1
Swift
I just played this game (haven't watched the replay back) and it really annoyed me because I should easily have won it, but instead I screwed up.
I played 1v1 a lot during the last week but fatigued myself fast, and this was my first since then on a cold Monday morning at 1am, so probably not the best time to kick off 1v1ing again but nevermind.
Things I noted during the game that should probably be looked at:
- I think I split my units up too much. Ignore the guy's chat about blobbing he doesn't seem to grasp the terminology given that's exactly what he was doing all game. I maybe lost too much ground early game to playing like this, but I'm not sure. Altogether felt very sluggish about what I was doing with my stuff and did not have a coherent picture of where to go
- My dive for the P IV went very badly and it was quite greedy (but also what the hell happened I was sure I was going to kill it but somehow it took no damage for ages?)
- I traded an MG34 for a heavy mortar accidentally, and it was terrible in the end. My unit preservation was quite poor and my macro game was kind of off
- Somehow, he got two KTs over the course of the game as well as one P IV and Jagdpanzer, and I'm not sure how he managed this. Did he really hold my fuel for that long, because I can't really remember. I dealt with them in the end, but it was too late by then
And yes, I am a little salty, and maybe it's not fair to call the guy mediocre, but it makes me kind of depressed I lost to his playstyle.
The internal battery has run dry, the game can now be played. However, clock based events will no longer occur.
11 Dec 2017, 06:51 AM
#2
Posts: 1153 | Subs: 1
Hi Sabre! If you'd like I can give you my opinion on your game 
11 Dec 2017, 12:48 PM
#3
Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1
Hi Sabre! If you'd like I can give you my opinion on your game
That would be very helpful, thanks.
The internal battery has run dry, the game can now be played. However, clock based events will no longer occur.
11 Dec 2017, 22:48 PM
#4
Posts: 1153 | Subs: 1
Hey Swifstabre, so I took a look at the replay and I'd say the overall reason why you lost was because of the infantry game. Your infantry took a hammering so much so that by the end you were reduced to nothing or maybe a single squad of combat engineers.
Other issues I identified, some of which are opinions and may vary depending on player skill, include your mid-game build order, army composition, and late-game micro.
First off, you did a great job at wiping squads. Your opponent went 5 produced and 5 lost with his Volksgrenadiers. He didn't bother to get a mine sweeper and had a few squads wiped by demos on your fuel point. Overall, your micro felt pretty even when comparing the two of you: you both had mistakes, some of which were paid for by lost squads or miraculously, the squad was saved. You even killed both of his KT and all of his armor including the JP4
Second of all, my bottom-line recommendation would've been to get a sniper some time in the mid game. You were really pressed for manpower whereas your opponent usually always had a healthy pool of it to reinforce squads and/or build another unit. I'd also recommend giving your T34 drivers less vodka so they don't feel as invincible when they drive up to the enemy and get fausted then die
Basically, that's it. I'll pick apart more stuff in greater detail but that's the summary.
I'll start with the early game and picking apart these first engagements:
The very first engagement, you stuck your combat engineer into the house by your opponent's fuel when it was surrounded by two volks. After you realized you were going to lose, you got out. It was a sensible decision, but you could've gauged your opponent by watching to see if he would dedicate both squads to firing into the house (and not going out to cap more points) or if he would've left one squad there. It may have been better for you to keep that engineer squad in there for another 20-30 seconds and deny your opponent a slight advantage in resources (because the sturmpio can cap right away).
After the Volks pushed your engineers off, maybe a minute later, there were three of them in the middle vs. one of your penal squads. You should've tried to withdraw right away or just retreat (I'm not sure on the exact situation now). You did a good job capping on the sides with your engineers, though.
At 4:13, the blob shifted to the right and took up position behind the light cover of the wood fence. You had a penal by that strategic point in front of it and another to the left of the mid VP. You closed the distance to make it to the green cover of the well but had to immediately retreat as the sustained fire from 12 K98s was too much for your 6 (then four) penals to handle. You should've soft retreated and found a way to have your other penal (and eventually the third one reinforcing at base) to come together to hit the volks while keeping your engineers on the sides capping point and laying mines. Instead, this engagement you lost 3-4 models and had to reinforce them whereas your opponent had four men in each Volks squad.
At 5:05 you had a good push in the mid but then you pushed too far (for the cutoff). Your opponent had an MG34 so your gains were immediately reversed as your squads were forced to retreat.
Basically, that's it for early game things. Better penal micro might've saved you some mp but your early game wasn't bad.
You had some end of early game/beginning of mid game tech choices to make. Essentially, you had to build units that allowed you to remain on the field and to punish your opponent more than they were punishing you. To be frank, you failed at this task and continued to suffer disproportionate manpower bleed throughout the rest of the game.
Essentially, you had four choices: tech up to T70, Build a sniper, get a team weapon from a doctrine, and build T2 and get team weapons from there. They weren't all mutually exclusive and you chose the T70 and the 120mm mortar. Neither were bad decisions but in hindsight it's easier to evaluate the decisions and postulate alternatives and use that in future games!
Naturally, you wanted to go for an early T70 and your opponent anticipated this and built a rakaten. You waited about two minutes before making a decision. You could've brought out the mortar earlier or built a sniper. The note I took says that at 7:20 you were floating 600mp and T3 was under construction. Then, you brought out the mortar which was a sensible choice considering that there were two MG34s on the field. What you really needed was another infantry squad (or the sniper) to give you more field presence and allow yourself to push the OKW player back. Denying resources early is a great way of delaying OKW's late game tech.
Alternatively, you could've gone Lend Lease and called in a Dshka, then a sniper, and not build a T70 and go straight for T4 with your fuel. With this opponent, that just might've worked as they saved up a lot of fuel (almost 250) and built a P4. Of course, that's also in part a counter to your build order. Or, you could've delayed your T70 by a minute or two after calling in the Dskha/sniper to contain his infantry pushes and gain ground for yourself.
You could've also stuck with the T70 but build a half track and upgrade it for a mobile suppression platform. Between the 10 and fifteen minute mark, an M5 Quad might've helped you push your opponent around, suppress MGs, and force him to invest more mp in an extra rakaten (perhaps instead of the leig).
Basically, the bottom line here is that you needed more than just a T70 and the 120mm mortar to punish your opponent. I disagree with your choice to build the SU-76 because you needed something to help relieve your mp bleed and shift it to your opponent. A second T70, then the SU-76 would've been decent as well. Your T70 was very successful but it ended up dying in a situation that may have been salvageable.
Some general mid-game notes:
you wiped two volks squads within five minutes of each other.
at 18:30 you should've told your penal squad to fire at the dying volks squad. This would've prevented the MG34 from spotting your squad and prevented the leig from firing at your squad (or made a barrage more inaccurate).
At 19:00 you lost the mid engagement and your mortar was wiped because you didn't have a squad to garrison the middle house.
At 16:20, your T70 is on capture mode on the top VP, taking fire from the MG34. You send it forward where it hits a mine, then gets destroyed by a rakaten + sturmpio. Towards the end of the engagement, you had one penal and maybe another one or your CE on the top standing by the muni point not moving. It would've been worth it to bring those two squads forward to try and push off the sturmpio/volks.
When you built your T34/85 that's when things started to go poorly. You should've built a T34/76 and then another SU-76 or another T34/76 to deal with the P4. The T34/85 doesn't perform as well against infantry and, like I said before, that's really what you needed: something to hit his infantry hard.
Case in point: at 27:05, his Obers were vet 2 with 26 kills and his P4 was at vet 2 with 26 kills. He had 144 kills at that point in the game -- a full 1/3 of his kills came from those two units.
At 29:00 you looked like you were going to lose. You killed the P4 but had an SU-85 and an SU-76. A minute before you just lost your MG34 and a penal squad. You have three penals and one CE and your opponent has no vehicles.
The last twenty minutes:
You both needed mine sweepers. You keep losing squads, you lost two more T34/85s, but you don't have the staying power on the field that your opponent has. You recaptured an MG34 late in the game but often times it is on the center of the field by itself and gets flanked and dies while you have 4-6 man penal squads sitting in your base (they could've reinforced en route from T1).
In a few engagements, your tanks could've remained on the field for a little while longer to help you keep squads on the field (I.e., pushing back the KT for a few more seconds allowing your penals/Guard to win engagements vs. schrecked sturmpios)
44:00 Obers have 62 kills.
I think a sniper and earlier suppression -- Maxim, M5 Quad, or even a Dshka could've helped you maintain field presence. A sniper really hurts the OKW and would allow your infantry to win those 1v1 engagements they would otherwise lose. one shot is 50 mp on the Obers squad. Your opponent had no diving unit to kill the sniper. Bottom line is you lost the manpower war (I think I've said that like three times already).
Other issues I identified, some of which are opinions and may vary depending on player skill, include your mid-game build order, army composition, and late-game micro.
First off, you did a great job at wiping squads. Your opponent went 5 produced and 5 lost with his Volksgrenadiers. He didn't bother to get a mine sweeper and had a few squads wiped by demos on your fuel point. Overall, your micro felt pretty even when comparing the two of you: you both had mistakes, some of which were paid for by lost squads or miraculously, the squad was saved. You even killed both of his KT and all of his armor including the JP4
Second of all, my bottom-line recommendation would've been to get a sniper some time in the mid game. You were really pressed for manpower whereas your opponent usually always had a healthy pool of it to reinforce squads and/or build another unit. I'd also recommend giving your T34 drivers less vodka so they don't feel as invincible when they drive up to the enemy and get fausted then die
Basically, that's it. I'll pick apart more stuff in greater detail but that's the summary.
I'll start with the early game and picking apart these first engagements:
The very first engagement, you stuck your combat engineer into the house by your opponent's fuel when it was surrounded by two volks. After you realized you were going to lose, you got out. It was a sensible decision, but you could've gauged your opponent by watching to see if he would dedicate both squads to firing into the house (and not going out to cap more points) or if he would've left one squad there. It may have been better for you to keep that engineer squad in there for another 20-30 seconds and deny your opponent a slight advantage in resources (because the sturmpio can cap right away).
After the Volks pushed your engineers off, maybe a minute later, there were three of them in the middle vs. one of your penal squads. You should've tried to withdraw right away or just retreat (I'm not sure on the exact situation now). You did a good job capping on the sides with your engineers, though.
At 4:13, the blob shifted to the right and took up position behind the light cover of the wood fence. You had a penal by that strategic point in front of it and another to the left of the mid VP. You closed the distance to make it to the green cover of the well but had to immediately retreat as the sustained fire from 12 K98s was too much for your 6 (then four) penals to handle. You should've soft retreated and found a way to have your other penal (and eventually the third one reinforcing at base) to come together to hit the volks while keeping your engineers on the sides capping point and laying mines. Instead, this engagement you lost 3-4 models and had to reinforce them whereas your opponent had four men in each Volks squad.
At 5:05 you had a good push in the mid but then you pushed too far (for the cutoff). Your opponent had an MG34 so your gains were immediately reversed as your squads were forced to retreat.
Basically, that's it for early game things. Better penal micro might've saved you some mp but your early game wasn't bad.
You had some end of early game/beginning of mid game tech choices to make. Essentially, you had to build units that allowed you to remain on the field and to punish your opponent more than they were punishing you. To be frank, you failed at this task and continued to suffer disproportionate manpower bleed throughout the rest of the game.
Essentially, you had four choices: tech up to T70, Build a sniper, get a team weapon from a doctrine, and build T2 and get team weapons from there. They weren't all mutually exclusive and you chose the T70 and the 120mm mortar. Neither were bad decisions but in hindsight it's easier to evaluate the decisions and postulate alternatives and use that in future games!
Naturally, you wanted to go for an early T70 and your opponent anticipated this and built a rakaten. You waited about two minutes before making a decision. You could've brought out the mortar earlier or built a sniper. The note I took says that at 7:20 you were floating 600mp and T3 was under construction. Then, you brought out the mortar which was a sensible choice considering that there were two MG34s on the field. What you really needed was another infantry squad (or the sniper) to give you more field presence and allow yourself to push the OKW player back. Denying resources early is a great way of delaying OKW's late game tech.
Alternatively, you could've gone Lend Lease and called in a Dshka, then a sniper, and not build a T70 and go straight for T4 with your fuel. With this opponent, that just might've worked as they saved up a lot of fuel (almost 250) and built a P4. Of course, that's also in part a counter to your build order. Or, you could've delayed your T70 by a minute or two after calling in the Dskha/sniper to contain his infantry pushes and gain ground for yourself.
You could've also stuck with the T70 but build a half track and upgrade it for a mobile suppression platform. Between the 10 and fifteen minute mark, an M5 Quad might've helped you push your opponent around, suppress MGs, and force him to invest more mp in an extra rakaten (perhaps instead of the leig).
Basically, the bottom line here is that you needed more than just a T70 and the 120mm mortar to punish your opponent. I disagree with your choice to build the SU-76 because you needed something to help relieve your mp bleed and shift it to your opponent. A second T70, then the SU-76 would've been decent as well. Your T70 was very successful but it ended up dying in a situation that may have been salvageable.
Some general mid-game notes:
you wiped two volks squads within five minutes of each other.
at 18:30 you should've told your penal squad to fire at the dying volks squad. This would've prevented the MG34 from spotting your squad and prevented the leig from firing at your squad (or made a barrage more inaccurate).
At 19:00 you lost the mid engagement and your mortar was wiped because you didn't have a squad to garrison the middle house.
At 16:20, your T70 is on capture mode on the top VP, taking fire from the MG34. You send it forward where it hits a mine, then gets destroyed by a rakaten + sturmpio. Towards the end of the engagement, you had one penal and maybe another one or your CE on the top standing by the muni point not moving. It would've been worth it to bring those two squads forward to try and push off the sturmpio/volks.
When you built your T34/85 that's when things started to go poorly. You should've built a T34/76 and then another SU-76 or another T34/76 to deal with the P4. The T34/85 doesn't perform as well against infantry and, like I said before, that's really what you needed: something to hit his infantry hard.
Case in point: at 27:05, his Obers were vet 2 with 26 kills and his P4 was at vet 2 with 26 kills. He had 144 kills at that point in the game -- a full 1/3 of his kills came from those two units.
At 29:00 you looked like you were going to lose. You killed the P4 but had an SU-85 and an SU-76. A minute before you just lost your MG34 and a penal squad. You have three penals and one CE and your opponent has no vehicles.
The last twenty minutes:
You both needed mine sweepers. You keep losing squads, you lost two more T34/85s, but you don't have the staying power on the field that your opponent has. You recaptured an MG34 late in the game but often times it is on the center of the field by itself and gets flanked and dies while you have 4-6 man penal squads sitting in your base (they could've reinforced en route from T1).
In a few engagements, your tanks could've remained on the field for a little while longer to help you keep squads on the field (I.e., pushing back the KT for a few more seconds allowing your penals/Guard to win engagements vs. schrecked sturmpios)
44:00 Obers have 62 kills.
I think a sniper and earlier suppression -- Maxim, M5 Quad, or even a Dshka could've helped you maintain field presence. A sniper really hurts the OKW and would allow your infantry to win those 1v1 engagements they would otherwise lose. one shot is 50 mp on the Obers squad. Your opponent had no diving unit to kill the sniper. Bottom line is you lost the manpower war (I think I've said that like three times already).
11 Dec 2017, 23:19 PM
#5
Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1
Thanks for the advice.
I'm very bad at reading the resource game, I have a rough idea of when units might hit the field, but absolutely no idea of how I'm punishing their economy. I find watching replays I frequently think "oh they should be building this now/going there because their opponent has no fuel" but then I find myself in games where I am in that position and I can't judge it at all. This is similar with manpower, I assumed he'd not have much given his Volks squad losses but clearly not.
My sniper micro is very poor, but I suppose that comes with practice.
I did consider multiple T34 76s, but I just thought "the bigger the gun the better the punch", and it did occur to me that I didn't have enough infantry but wasn't sure what toa dd into the mix to fix it.
Thanks for the tips. If I get a decent game soon where I put this into action I'll post it here to mark my progress.
I'm very bad at reading the resource game, I have a rough idea of when units might hit the field, but absolutely no idea of how I'm punishing their economy. I find watching replays I frequently think "oh they should be building this now/going there because their opponent has no fuel" but then I find myself in games where I am in that position and I can't judge it at all. This is similar with manpower, I assumed he'd not have much given his Volks squad losses but clearly not.
My sniper micro is very poor, but I suppose that comes with practice.
I did consider multiple T34 76s, but I just thought "the bigger the gun the better the punch", and it did occur to me that I didn't have enough infantry but wasn't sure what toa dd into the mix to fix it.
Thanks for the tips. If I get a decent game soon where I put this into action I'll post it here to mark my progress.
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13 Dec 2017, 05:45 AM
#6
Posts: 1153 | Subs: 1
Thanks for the advice.
Thanks for the tips. If I get a decent game soon where I put this into action I'll post it here to mark my progress.
That sounds great! It all came down to you needing something to punish his infantry because your infantry couldn't do the job on their own :/
13 Dec 2017, 09:00 AM
#7
Posts: 612 | Subs: 1
It seems like Gbpirate gave a pretty good account of the specifics to focus on, but, if you like i can try and give some advice about mind set and decision making?
13 Dec 2017, 15:39 PM
#8
Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1
It seems like Gbpirate gave a pretty good account of the specifics to focus on, but, if you like i can try and give some advice about mind set and decision making?
Any help is welcome help!
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